Rochdale In The News Again

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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  teamplayer2 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:27 pm

cyfrifia wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21766742

Rochdale in the news again today, the BBC do a feature on Falinge, and ask "Are there 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor?"

What the F### OF A STATEMENT IS THAT? Deserving and undeserving poor. Is it political speak from the politicians saying, "WE DO NOT GIVE A TOSS ABOUT PEOPLE IN FALINGE."
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Atlas on Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:54 am

I disagree teamplayer2. Watch the clip again and then tell me why the chap being interviewed should not take a temporary position in a warehouse, regardless of the fact that it is low paid and nobody gives a toss about him, whilst continuing to look for the job he really wants. I also get the impression the interviewer passed over the fact that he would also be receiving rates relief and rent allowances over and above his £71 per week Job-Seekers-Allowance. There can be no 'deserving' of welfare if a person is not prepared to get out of bed in the first place. Sorry - doesn't wash with me. Smile
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Hinch on Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:02 am

The very fact that this debate is taking place around antiquated terms like 'deserving' and 'undeserving' poor shows just how far we have fallen. Surely the day of the Parish Beadle is set to make a comeback?

I didn't see the programme but have seen many others in similar style fronted by some well-heeled interviewer or public school-educated politician keen to establish his forthright principles with the electorate who have been drip-fed welfare horror stories in the right-wing press.

For the sake of scoring a few party political points and seen to be throwing a few juicy titbits to the baying hoard, they are prepared to cause untold misery to millions.

Listening to Michael Portillo and Ian Duncan Smith on The Moral Maze yesterday reminded me who the real villains of the piece are and that class war is making a big comeback.

By all means punish the real fraudsters but let's start at the top.

Old Regulator, dust off your copy of Das Kapital and book a room at the Mechanics Hall. The militia is saddling up and polishing their sabres!
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Old Regulator on Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:12 pm

Yes Hinch shades of Peterloo. I often wonder what those brave radical protesters against the poor laws think about to-day’s movers and shifters. To-day’s radicals don’t seem to ‘bother; (as in am I) as long as they are fed drivel through the modern day ‘opiate of the masses’ virtual TV.
Funny how the deserving or non deserving rich have the power to lead opinion by just showing a minority of undeservers.
I also lament the fact that some do not make the link with the workhouse when they hear ‘undeserving poor’, I wonder if there are any books on the subject?

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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  teamplayer2 on Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:16 pm

There is one thing we are learning. Capitalism or socialism does not work in any political form. Both are a failed system.

What do we put in the place of a failed political system?
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Old Regulator on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:42 pm

teamplayer2 wrote:There is one thing we are learning. Capitalism or socialism does not work in any political form. Both are a failed system.

What do we put in the place of a failed political system?
Democracy?

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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Hinch on Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:55 pm

What about Liberal Democracy Old Regulator? Might that work?

Don't answer right away. You can ask the studio audience or phone a friend.

For me, Marxism is the only valid explanation of how society is organised. It's about those who own and control the means of production and those who... errr... don't. Simples.
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Atlas on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:13 am

I doubt very much that you, as an individual, need 'do' anything teamplayer2 (and friends). Like most liquids the problem will find its own level through time and space. It's arrogant to think that you or your friends have the 'answer' (whilst you most fervently believe that you do) as opposed to the rest. If there be one answer it would most surely have been discovered before now. After all millions over centuries have striven towards just that end. The people will decide as they always do and will have to contend with that decision until the next time whence they will strive again and again and again. As Old Regulator says - Democracy. Wars don't sort things nor do peace initiatives - god knows we have had enough of them - . The planet will respond to that which it feels is its most favoured position and our species will bend to that will - regardless of what we say or do in the matter. But no one should critisise you (and your friends) for trying. Fair fortune. Wink Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  teamplayer2 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:04 pm

Not to worry Atlas old fruit. Had friends round at my house the other week and had a good laugh and drunk plenty of beer and wine and no mention of politics. Not worth losing sleep over is it my mate. Very Happy drunken king queen flower cat clown pirat albino cherry farao
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Atlas on Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:57 am

I'll drink t' that. drunken Sleep
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:23 pm

Other towns have similar problems, but, Rochdale does seem to have embedded itself as a media stereotype.

Quote: "Rochdale-style child sex abuse"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/06/specialist-met-gang-child-abuse

Why is that? Would it be because of the long drawn out denials, turning of blind eyes, general squirming about and 'lack of culpability' that has kept the story running in the media?

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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Chill37 on Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:19 pm

Another pearl of a news item about Rochdale.

50 Smith Street aka the new eyesore Council HQ is in the news. The new unisex toilets have been binned after complaints from staff.


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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Charly on Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:37 pm

Why, was there no squat ones provided? Laughing
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Dalelad on Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:51 pm

cyfrifia wrote:Other towns have similar problems, but, Rochdale does seem to have embedded itself as a media stereotype.

Quote: "Rochdale-style child sex abuse"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/06/specialist-met-gang-child-abuse

Why is that? Would it be because of the long drawn out denials, turning of blind eyes, general squirming about and 'lack of culpability' that has kept the story running in the media?
I'm guessing that it's because it was here that the first big trial of this type took place?
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Dalelad on Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:59 pm

Chill37 wrote:Another pearl of a news item about Rochdale.

50 Smith Street aka the new eyesore Council HQ is in the news. The new unisex toilets have been binned after complaints from staff.

An alternative view is that the council listens to its staff and makes positive changes. It all depends on how you approach the situation. Either unrelentingly negatively or from a more positive point of view.
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Charly on Thu Mar 21, 2013 4:17 pm

Cant it just be the council got it wrong...again? Laughing
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:13 pm

Dalelad wrote:
cyfrifia wrote:Other towns have similar problems, but, Rochdale does seem to have embedded itself as a media stereotype.

Quote: "Rochdale-style child sex abuse"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/mar/06/specialist-met-gang-child-abuse

Why is that? Would it be because of the long drawn out denials, turning of blind eyes, general squirming about and 'lack of culpability' that has kept the story running in the media?
I'm guessing that it's because it was here that the first big trial of this type took place?

There were similar cases before, in Derby, and a list of other towns, and what was going on may have been on similar scale, but yes, the Rochdale grooming case was the first to take so many to trial, and the first to attract such a lot of media coverage. The idea of 'Rochdale-style child sex abuse' has fixed itself in the national consciousness, but, it is really more characteristic of Rochdale that of other towns?

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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Guest on Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:28 pm

cyfrifia wrote:
There were similar cases before, in Derby, and a list of other towns, and what was going on may have been on similar scale, but yes, the Rochdale grooming case was the first to take so many to trial, and the first to attract such a lot of media coverage. The idea of 'Rochdale-style child sex abuse' has fixed itself in the national consciousness, but, it is really more characteristic of Rochdale that of other towns?


The Rochdale case was not the first to take so many to trial.


In Operation Retriever, a gang of 9 men (out of a higher number on trial) from Derby were convicted of systematically grooming and sexually abusing teenage girls, ranging from rape to false imprisonment.

Convictions were achieved for 15 of the girl victims. The gang's youngest victim was only 12 years old.

The nine were convicted during 3 separate, secret trials that ran from February through to November 2010 at Leicester Crown Court. Reporting restrictions were in place until the very end of the third trial in November 2010.

This case result came after others in Rochdale, Preston and Rotherham, where groups of Asian men had been found guilty of grooming and raping girls.

The convictions of 9 Rochdale men in May 2012 for gang grooming, rape and sex trafficking of young girls was not the first case of this kind featuring Rochdale victims or offenders.


There are differences based on the crime categories of child sexual abuse and the street grooming of vulnerable children by groups of men. With heightened national awareness of the scale of child sexual exploitation, the “different forms” are many and a 1-off CSE definition is perhaps now seen as too generalised today, through overloads ...


Inappropriate behaviour, internet enticement, groping, one-to-one exploitation and systematic, multiple rapes in example may all be child sexual abuse, but a public need to better understand the different crimes may just be one reason why the media you quoted used the expression ‘Rochdale-style sex abuse.’


I think the Jury is out on your last query, given that a second group of 9 bailed men here are allegedly currently going through the court system for prosecutions, reference the Forum Post: “Sex Grooming – 9 more charged,” and some potential future ‘others’ were lightly mentioned in a few past news snippets.






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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Chill37 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:21 am

Dalelad wrote:
Chill37 wrote:Another pearl of a news item about Rochdale.

50 Smith Street aka the new eyesore Council HQ is in the news. The new unisex toilets have been binned after complaints from staff.

An alternative view is that the council listens to its staff and makes positive changes. It all depends on how you approach the situation. Either unrelentingly negatively or from a more positive point of view.

Well more less positive. As in how much will it cost us taxpayers to re label all the toilets back to men and womens. Did the RMBC planning department take advice from the people that gave us the Nile pans?

As I dont think for one second that our Council listens. As if it did, we would have a Town Centre to be proud off so on and so forth. Or in this case the staff wouldnt have complained in the first place about mixed toilets. Lets be honest about this Dale lad- i suspect the mixed toliets were part of a ticky box exercise similar to the Nile Pan disaster.

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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Chill37 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:20 am

Charly wrote:Cant it just be the council got it wrong...again? Laughing

Of course they got it wrong again. Us mere mortals can see that, but those in the corridors of power will never admit it. Well maybe in a spin filled PR released document citing some strange and far out reason.

Ah well.

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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Dalelad on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:02 am

Nile pan disaster? The Titanic was a disaster, the japanese tsunami was a disaster, what's happening in Syria is a disaster. The nile pan decision was a daft mistake. Let's keep things in proportion shall we?
They aren't mixed toilets, they are unisex. Each one is a self contained room with washing and drying facilities. I would say that I'd prefer separate loos myself as would most people I guess, and that 's what they will be once they've been relabelled.

In case you haven't noticed, Chill, the town centre is being developed so that it will be something to be proud of. Change doesn't happen overnight and things are in motion. Obviously there are people who don't like the new buildings and will seek to criticise wherever they can, but others will see what's happening, like it, and hope that it helps the town get back on its feet. Leaving things as they were wasn't an option, was it?
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Chill37 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:34 am

Ok,. the Nile Pan was a PR disaster- is that better? keeping in proportion just for you.

The toilets are unisex- that means both sexes can used - so that in my books is mixed.But i can work with the word 'unisex' if thats acceptable for the course of this conversation. But ladies and men will run the risk of bumping into people once they come out of the unisex toilet cubicle en route to the wash basin after doing their absolutions.

.I see you have picked up the relabelling aspect. All this could have been avoided if seperate toilets were built in the first place instead of unisex toilets. Which is the whole point of me posting- Rochdale In The News - for the wrong reasons.

Yes I drive through Rochdale every few days. Rochdale is changing- far too late maybe- but I can go with that. yes we are opening the River- something I fully agree with based on my many comments on here, RO etc. However I am not alone with the views towards 50 Smith Street and the utter comtempt shown to us by past Councils spending £50m considering the almost empty coffers of RMBC.

Cllr Lamberts obession with even more shopping space when we have two areas already half empty and one of those centres is in recievership. The farce that is costing us the taxpayers money to give the Wheatsheaf a new front door as the people behind the new white elephant shopping centre forgot to account for what is left once the walkway is demolished when the Black Box is torn down.


Yes nothing happens overnight- but we have had a lot of overnights havn't we? Still our Town Centre is dying and out Council does not listen.


Last edited by Chill37 on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Hinch on Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:37 am

'Disaster', like 'genius' and 'brave' are much overused and devalued words.

I agree that doing nothing is not an option BUT nothing would be more depressing than a big, gleaming shopping centre full of empty retailing space. We need to strike a balance between building for the future whilst learning from the past and facing up to the situation as it stands at present.

The council may have money to burn but people have very little to spend plus, people do so much shopping via t'internet these days.

I am concerned that no real cogniscence is being taken of the current situation in the retailing sector and that we could be landed with a hideously expensive white elephant.

Not easy. We need Mystic Meg on the job.

The loo situation is a non-issue. If we allow this sort of stuff to be flagged up as a bad news story, we really are ****ed.
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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:48 pm

Cool




Last edited by cyfrifia on Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Rochdale In The News Again

Post  Hinch on Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:52 pm

I think this is running on the SCR thread.
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