Britain leaving the E.U.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:38 pm

Why would they??? They can propagandise that it is a British problem. That's where the immigrants want to go. If so - we should take them in and the problem will go away - until the next batch arrive.
This is another nail in the coffin of our membership with the EU. It will suit the French if we are gone. (They didn't want us in in the first place.) Our removal will boost the French position to one of almost absolute power (providing the Germans behave themselves).
And therefore we have a decision to make. One that should be made without the emotions of 'pay-back' or 'power rush'.
For me it's simple - Do I want to be pissed around with European laws and dictates from unelected buffoons I don't know and have never heard of? Or - Do I want the same but from my own people whom I probably have heard of? The referendum will be next year - so it's getting time to decide what's going to be the best bet. Shocked Shocked
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:05 pm

It's difficult to believe the government didn't see the Calais crisis coming. It was on the cards for ages, and obviously so when they sent ships to rescue thousands of migrants from the Med.

I suspected an agenda to manipulate public opinion about the E.U. referendum, but am advised that government really is as shallow thinking as much of the general population, so, perhaps it is all just genuine incompetence.

P.S. Not meaning the general population are shallow thinking on all subjects, but most of them have other things to do than think about politics and international strategy, we rather hope the government would do that. Life is full of these little disappointments. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Thu Jul 30, 2015 2:26 pm

If the British public are that lazy and shallow as to 'allow' a bunch of nitwits to control their lives without at least a murmur or whimper of interest or protest then they deserve all they get. It's at times like these that the 'extremists' win power - as in Greece and dare I say Germany both born from desperation after decades of mismanagement at the behest of a disinterested/fragmented public. Like in Scotland where the public were borne along on a wave of jingoistic nationalist zeal - ditto Greece, Italy and Germany. Like areas of deprivation in this country and UKIP. Grabbing at houses of 'straw' only brings even more torment and grief.
It has become obvious from recent ramblings of certain political cadres in Europe that the only salvation for the Euro and its aims would be for a totally federated Europe. That being the case (and I can see where they are coming from and to some degree I would concur) do I want to be a part of it?? Am I prepared to be absorbed into a Greater Europa or do I want to go my own way with the freedoms to make my own mistakes. The choice is coming. The pathway to a referendum will be strewn with half-truths and mind-blockers. Am I astute enough to know the difference between the smile of the alligator and the grin of the monkey? The choice is coming. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Smile Smile Smile
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:31 am

Mr. Cameron has said the Calais situation will go on for months yet. If so, it will become more problematic, disruptive and complicated. Does he understand the foreseeable political instabilities? He looks stressed on the telly, but, his chat about sniffer dogs was outstandingly unconvincing. Is he the wrong sort of politician to cope with this kind of thing?

He will be having a holiday next week, after his tour in the far east. Don't expect he will be driving down via Calais though.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Sat Aug 01, 2015 2:12 pm

I strongly suspect the Calais situation is a boon to the European champions for the longer it continues (France is very pro-European) the more disgruntled and anti-European the British populace will become. The outcome could sway the referendum towards a NO vote to which both Germany and France would rub their hands (it would allow them the freedom, being the largest and most powerful of the 27 remaining countries, to call the tune without fear of rational argument) and await the gathering of the fruits from the dissension. You should remember this is politics - nothing is ever what it seems on the surface. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Smile
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:12 pm

Of course, nothing in politics, or in much of life, is what it seems on the surface, that much is obvious, even on the surface.

If, as you say, Germany and France would be so pleased to see the UK exit the E.U., perhaps we ought to co-operate with them by doing so. A stronger and better organised europe is in all our interests.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Sun Aug 02, 2015 2:44 pm

Yes. Indeed. Until France and Germany fall out again and the whole rotten edifice comes crashing down. Germany doesn't really want our interference but likes using us as a buffer against the French to get their own way so will make lots of noise about us 'staying' with 'it'. The French will say - Don't go - with a mild Gaelic shrug and a snigger. We are a thorn in their sides because we won't jump into bed with their desires to Federate and rule. What beats me is why the other countries cannot see what is blatantly obvious to a blind man?? The 'POWER' is to remain in central Europe as it has always been since the 19th century. Call it an EU if you want - but someone has to rule. Co-operatives (in the true sense of the word) 'DON'T' work. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:40 pm

France and Germany will manage to get along ok. If they don't, might as well call it a day anyway. The UK seems confused about it's own identity and direction, it could probably do with a quiet sit down, and some tea and sympathy. We won't be getting that from Europe though.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:27 pm

People tend to see Europe in a microcosm - it isn't - it never was - whatever happens in Europe has a massive effect elsewhere, which is why Obama says for us to stay in Europe. The agendas are not what most people would perceive - and it's the agendas that drive the machine.Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:54 pm

U.S.A. foreign policy is an excellent example of something to be completely independent of.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:42 pm

The trouble is - we can't. World security depends upon alliances as it is historically split into 3/4/5 tangible blocs (depending upon circumstances at the time). At present we have four observable blocs, each with it's own agenda, each a threat should international politics fail to keep the peace. The European bloc (NATO) is crucial to America's security. The EU facilitates that security through the EU States and its allies. America needs for us (GB) to have an influence upon those States as serving 'her' (USA's) best interests. The UK being outside the EU isn't part of the American agenda - ergo - Obama wants us to stay in -QED. Simples.
As to whether that would be the best course for the UK's economy in the long run doesn't play a part in that agenda (for the Yanks) - but it does for us. The choice is yours - Wink Wink Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Shocked Shocked Smile
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Aug 04, 2015 7:01 pm

Whether being in or out of E.U. is best for the economy is argued over. It's more about whether or not we want to eventually become good eurodroids.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:55 pm

I'm not an isolationist nor a 'small-islander'. I don't however find anything on the European Continent which gives me, as an individual, a positive, long term feeling of worth or that I could embrace as worthwhile for my future or that of my offspring. United we stand divided we fall only has resonance providing one feels 'part' of a larger 'whole' to begin with. I feel that the UK should stand together and not divide in order to sustain its future and that my place, as born and bred here, is with my people in my country. To 'join' other countries and feel that same connection would only be if those countries had the same culture and social background that I am used to. Germany, Holland perhaps but I don't feel I have anything in common with the rest.
Britain has always traded with the rest of the world and been extremely successful in that endeavour. I see no reason why that could not continue and indeed grow when we have released ourselves from the politics of Europe (note 'politics' not 'trade' as was the original intention).
Give me back the common market and I might reconsider - until then - I'm not really interested.Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:19 am

In 1973 Britain joined the common market, that turned into the E.U.

Since then, a lot of people have left to retire or work abroad, a lot of population have come in from europe and elsewhere, and a considerable number of older people have died or have some degree of altzheimers.

Must be a diminishing minority of people who have any memory or experience of living in an independent UK.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:08 pm

If today's generation wishes to live as a 'collective' under the banner of a United Europe and all that such entails then so be it. It's their time and their lives. To a greater or lesser degree my generation sprang from a generation that had no wish to trust or be a part of a 'Greater Europe' and to be 'ruled' from beyond this country's borders. GB has gone through a huge transition from Empire to a singularity the majority of which took place during my lifetime. I was happy at that and happy to remain in control (to some extent) of my own destiny living within the laws, some of which I didn't agree with, coming from within my own country's parliament. I DON'T wish to continue the present arrangements if that means I should have to live with laws made by a 'consortium' of politicians from across the continent and from countries whose cultures I have no knowledge or previous experience of. That's basically it for me. As for the rest out there. They will have to make their own minds up - in due course. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:41 am

Philip Hammond, foreign secretary told BBC news today that laws and arrangements within the E.U. mean ongoing millions of migrants from Africa into Europe cannot be stopped, and unless those E.U. laws and arrangements are changed, he forsees consequent collapse of the economic and social structures of europe.

Quite a persuasive speech to vote to take the UK out of the E.U. No date has been set for the referendum as yet has it? We probably have a year or two to think about it.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:00 pm

Not really. Next year or early in 2017 at the latest. New EU legislation will demand the agreement of 'all' EU countries for any member to withdraw voluntarily making a UK withdrawal not impossible (because we are not in the Euro currency) but much more difficult than has been previously. Cameron will have to have his referendum sooner than later if he is to avoid this impediment. The present influx of immigrants and the stale-mate which exists within the EU to get to grips with the problem will give added impetus to the 'No' campaigns efforts which to some extent will neuter the 'Yes' campaign consortium's (of which Cameron is in one) efforts.
At the moment I cannot see anything changing for the better for this country. The more successful we are the more monies we shall be providing (by dint of subs) to keep the EU afloat. Given our own requirements and the lack of funding in many quarters I for one prefer we get out and look after our own people first. Selfish perhaps. But I am a realist. We CANNOT save the world and I for one don't intend to try.Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Did I tell you I was a social Darwinist.Twisted Evil
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:53 pm

A social darwinist ? Quite rare, a dying breed these days.

If someone wanted to make up a story just to illustrate that the UK has never got the hang of being in the E.U., never understood what the implications are, never adapted to cope with it, they might make up a bizarre and unbelievable story about people in europe using UK EHIC cards to get free medical treatment in their own countries and charging it to the UK NHS.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:07 pm

Now that would be silly wouldn't it! We are dealing with fact here not fiction. Which stupid cretin from government circles would allow such a possible infringement of the rules when setting up the card system in the first place. Quite laughable. Reminds one of a Dan Brown novel being far-fetched as it is.
Now for some reality - - - . 'Songs of Praise' will be broadcast from the 'Jungle' shanty camp near Calais this coming Sunday in order to show that the BBC isn't political in any shape or form. Sound policy don't you think?
The government, busy at the moment deciding the BBC's charter and forthcoming funding arrangements for the license, will pretend they haven't seen our monies being spent by the BBC's seemingly unbiased programming and will no doubt not be influenced by their non-political broadcasting.
And the dance goes on - - .Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:28 pm

[quote="cyfrifia"]A social darwinist ? Quite rare, a dying breed these days.


Yes indeed. But then all the 'breeds' are dying in one form or another- t'is the way of things. I believe it is called 'evolution' and that by such a process the 'form' moves on to accommodate the world/planet as it too 'moves on'. My distant ancestors (as in the future) will I believe be darker of skin with less blonde or blue eyed amongst them. They will speak a form of Anglo-European based upon my dialect English and will have large posteriors, thin legs, thickened arms and bigger heads. Movement will be restricted both at home and in the community (due to proliferation at ground level) and will be by drone-type vehicles and craft. The planet's atmosphere will have been regulated and a distinct ambient weather pattern will be controlled to suit crops and wildlife as is required. Natural disasters will still occur but ample warnings and movements will reduce the casualties and the clear-ups will be automatically undertaken by robotic methods in order for the area's affected to return to industry and commerce as quickly as possible.
This of course will only be possible if the communities adopt are more Darwinistic approach to the present populations - as I am sure they will when the truth of their own existences dawn on them. Man hasn't the capacity to destroy himself completely when other methods are available.
It will end and begin again with blood - lots of it. One just has to ensure that it's not one's own blood that is being spilled. As some of us will. (Not me of course - I'm dying - as you said.) Wink Wink Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked






















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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:19 am

Hope that won't be for a long time yet. Smile

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:54 pm

You and me both. But one never knows - - does one. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:04 pm

Negotiations about the UK situation with the EU seem to have sort of started, although the EU has a lot of other stuff on it's agenda. The general picture is that re-negotiation and the beaurocracy and obscure processes associated, with the nature of the setup of the EU, would take years to sort anything out. The pragmatic view is really 'take it or leave it'.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Thu Oct 01, 2015 2:16 pm

We knew that to begin with. The 'new' deal is a Conservative ploy to make it look as if the negotiations are taking place and that we are getting somewhere with them. Cobblers.
Cameron has a job on his hands as half his people want out and the other half want to stay in. Both the SNP and Labour and the Libs want to stay in. On a House of Commons vote we will be staying in which means that the Yes to staying in will have a huge majority of 'influence' as against those of the rest of the country who may want out but who won't get the publicity. The BBC will be for staying in - never a good sign when we don't have unbiased media. It may well be that the vast majority of the electorate will want out. But it won't seem that way when the media and the spin doctors get to work. Whatever transpires I fear for a democratic outcome that has any reliability.
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Oct 01, 2015 3:04 pm

The British public put up with a lot, but would they put up with spin and disinformation on the E.U. in/out referendum?  Hopefully UKIP and the electoral commission will be on the case to make it a fair vote.

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