Britain leaving the E.U.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:19 pm

As it is very clear that the present government don't want to leave I suspect we shall be given a tissue of untruths regarding progress with 'changes' and promised jam at some later date. Most of the public will be drawn along with that spin and will vote to stay in. For those no wishing to be a small part of a European federation they will vote to come out - but I doubt it will be sufficient to sway the end result.
If you are not concerned that these islands should remain truly independent then a Yes vote to stay in will be OK - regardless.
If you think that these islands should retain total sovereignty and their own independence then a No vote to the question 'should we remain in the EU' would do.
We will not be masters of our own destiny in this one I'm afraid. Much like everything else that has been done in our name over the past centuries.Rolling Eyes Crying or Very sad Question
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Jun 30, 2015 11:03 am

As negotiations trickle on, it becomes quite apparent that there are a core of european nations committed to 'ever closer political union'. They want to merge.

The UK doesn't and is putting forward  a comparitavely complicated one foot in one foot out sort of semi-detatched membership. All very British, a compromise. We would be doing the core member countries of the E.U.,who are busy and focussed on their potentially useful project, a favour if we stopped wasting their time and politely and helpfully detatched ourselves to a comfortable distance.

Rather than worrying about selling our manufactured goods abroad, which is a total nonsense, we should concentrate on manufacturing a wide range of new generation, brilliantly designed reliable electronic gadgets, from the micro-minature to the huge, under the label of 'English'. Wales would just have to catch up. Scotland can live on fish if they train enough international lawyers to protect their fishing grounds.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:22 pm

Again I don't disagree. However - my life span is slowly drawing towards a finality and it is not 'me' who will be affected, in the long run, by the state of play that emerges from these next round of EU talks etc. I was born into a war that was fighting for the British to have the right towards their own determination. My parents help win that war and survived - as did I. Therefore that right to me (my generation) is sacrosanct. My children were born into the 'Cold War' which had the same outlook providing of course some idiot somewhere didn't blow us all to hell. My grandchildren (and it is to those whom I allude) were born into a free Europe that had managed to stop fighting itself through a fresh attempt at integration which to this day still prevails. A break-up of the EU may not be a good thing and therefore I wouldn't want to be a part of anything that would help to bring that about. As for Britain - Well you tell me? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:31 pm

A break up of the E.U. would not be a good thing for those countries benefiting from and committed to it, and not for the world region generally. The E.U. is under strain at the moment, and not in good shape to cope with it. The E.U. is increasingly, and needs to be, a political union, but at the moment is rather higgledy-piggeldy.

The UK isn't in the central european zone, like Greece, we are somewhat detatched, and would more naturally be, at best, an associate member. Let the central countries of the E.U. get their act together for their own needs and in their own terms rather than having to accomodate the sort of reforms the UK would want.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:17 pm

I'll drink to that. What's yours? Wink Wink Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:06 am

The Greeks say that under E.U. treaty rules, no country can be forced to leave the eurozone once they have joined, so no matter how much debt they are in, europe cannot boot them out.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:41 pm

They, that is 'Brussels', won't need to. All that is required is to stop the funding and the Greek banks will not be able to operate - ergo - no banks, no economy, no money, no life. They will then have to reinstate their own new/old currency with which to recommence trading. That will only be accepted by their creditors at the new (lower) rate as dictated by the 'markets'. Thus the Greek Euro will be defunct - a useless bit of paper.( A little known fact - each EU country has its own unique Euro notes). Having reneged on their repayment to the ECB they will not have the grant funding they (as a depressed economy) have been receiving since they joined in the 90's and without that there will be no point in them making their net contribution to the 'fund'. No membership payment = No membership. Ergo - No duress required -. Simples. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Smile Smile There are always more than one ways of skinning a cat.
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:08 pm

Brilliant, so the function of the E.U. is to skin cats? This should have been explained earlier.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Sun Jul 05, 2015 2:26 pm

Yes. Especially when it comes down to their members not toeing the 'Party' line. One must never forget that the ultimate objective of those that sealed the Maestricht Treaty was for a Federated Europe, one led and ruled by a European Parliament from Brussels or wherever the politicians deemed the best venue - could have been Berlin (surprise, surprise). The Greeks haven't played the game because they 'cheated' with their 'books' (aided and abetted by the banks), borrowed too much money and failed to repay (by dint of lax tax-collection and ludicrous hand-outs with their so-called Welfare State) and are now saying 'take it or leave it'. They are a 'bad member' who hasn't taken as a first course the well-being of the 'club'. So off with their skin - head if you prefer. Which just goes to prove that political unions are all well and good if the stakes are equal and the cultures similar. But not otherwise. The logic of the playground - keep it fair or I'm not playing. A five year old could have told them that Europe wasn't ready for such an ill conceived 'game' especially when one began to enrol states in addition to the original six 'similar' economies with others at the far end of the scale. Economics of the mad house given we have democracies/economies ranging so far left and so far right and from the land peasant to the space technicians all in one basket. You have heard of a 'basket-case' - that's what comes of politicians not understanding economics or how economies actually work and putting them in charge. Mad Mad Shocked Shocked Sad Sad Sad Sad Rolling Eyes
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Jul 07, 2015 12:39 am

Euro-politicians will probably understand that if Greece is booted out of the eurozone with bad feeling all round, it would be a geo-political injury that would cause a further sequence of problems. My guess is re-negotions will carry on, and on, in the hope something will turn up.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Tue Jul 07, 2015 2:47 pm

I haven't the slightest doubt of it. Another mish-mash of drivel and the dance goes on.

But five years is getting to be the 'longest of days'. The Greeks are fed up. The Germans are fed up. The French think they are at a fancy dress party and we here couldn't really give a toss for any of them, we're just brassed off at all the arguing. It's a wonderful, wonderful world. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:29 am

That german lady, angela meercat or whatever is touring the balkan states to see about them joining the eurozone. Does the UK need all this complications? If we leave the E.U. and let them get on with it, it might be more manageable for us. Better late than never.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:34 pm

As things stand it is very likely that there will not be one (an EU) or certainly not like its present form. It was a crass idea to expand it beyond those nations of Central Europe in the first place. As for the Balkans history tells any man of rational common-sense that any liaison with the Slavs as such should be avoided at all cost. The 'Meercat's nation has a long history with the Serbs, none of which has ever proven beneficial in fact quite the reverse, but they, (the Germans) can't seem to want to leave things alone.
I certainly wouldn't want to stay with the EU in its present form or in the way it seems to be going. It will end up imploding eventually and could end up in violence on a grand scale. We should get out and stay out and refuse to take sides when the balloon goes up.
We have nothing in common with Federations. We have enough trouble with Unions let alone anything else.Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Jul 08, 2015 3:59 pm

If it takes seven weeks for seven men to lay a concrete path, how many lorry loads of cement will it take to fill up the channel tunnel?

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Thu Jul 09, 2015 2:39 pm

Length times width times height times (cubic capacity of a concrete mixer/lorry) - approx ten million would just about do it. Times x00 pounds sterling = 2 billion pounds. Cheap at half the price.
But I don't think that would be necessary. Just blow the bloody thing up. Which is precisely what will happen and is already planned for in the event of it being used to try and flood this country with undesirables (especially the ones carrying 47KK's).

But it is not the land/sea routes that are the problem is it? It's the 'air' routes (and I don't mean air-planes).

The 'CyberWorm'. That will be the greatest danger later this century. Kill the computers. Kill the economy. Kill the country. Kills the enemy. Chaos. And it's back to the future.
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:03 pm

The computer age has it's own jargon. "Garbage in garbage out" gives a basic understanding of how it all works,

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:00 pm

Indeed, but being the parasite we are 'garbage' is essential for our survival - nes pas?

I don't envy my grandchildren and their grandchildren one little bit. With all that is lined up for them over the next century and beyond I doubt my life has been any worse and maybe even a little better.
I don't have to be gifted with a wild imagination to know what's coming. It is already laid out for everyone to see. And it's going to be hell. Sad Sad
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:00 pm

Oh dear.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Sat Jul 11, 2015 2:35 pm

Master of the under-statement. Very Happy Very Happy

Well let's just do a quick list -.

Overpopulation. Drought. Famine. Wars for resources. Technological innovations such as nano-bots. Self-aware robotics. Mutated viruses and bacteria's. Climatic/natural catastrophes due to climatic change and plate tectonic movements.
In short everything that threatens the species and its continued peaceful existence on the planet.

What they will need to get used to is specialising in mass burials. That will be the fastest growing trade world wide.

And I'm not joking.Sad
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:08 pm

The more people are born, and we now have the highest world population ever, the more will die and need to be buried. With high population levels, everything becomes more fragile and less stable. Disease travels faster, there is more dependence on computerised systems that can crash, natural disasters can hit dense populations, more competition for resources, and so forth. Nothing essentially new there. Life has always been a dangerous business. From a uk perspective, building up a huge population seems a high risk strategy, as world events become more volatile, economies rise and fall, a smaller population more in proportion to available natural resources seems more 'future-proof'.

Is overpopulation a problem for europe in general though? We have seen the worst examples of overpopulation in other parts of the world. It seems the more children there are, when resources are stretched or the preserve of the rich, the worse their quality of life is. So many orphans, abandoned children, street children.

Being a parent isn't easy in any circumstances, many children in the UK get a bad deal, traumas and neglects of all kinds in childhood may not be apparent, but are, of course, formative.

The official inquiry into child sexual abuse is only just getting under way, is massive and may run for many years, but that's only one aspect of how the responsibility of society to it's children has been overlooked. With an expanding population, a massive amount of re-think, work and money needs to go into the future.

There is a lot of speculation about the future of the euro, the eurozone, europe generally at the moment, how it may re-arrange itself. If the UK is going to get some sense of clarity and direction, we need to know if we are in or out or what. The Greeks are pushing the social dimension of europe rather than the financial aspect, the balance between the two is complicated.

Complicated seems to be the buzzword at the moment, so I will have a go with it, things are complicated, yes, komplizierte, περίπλοκη, that's a fair start, but just having a good descriptive word for the situation is a rather limited achievement.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:32 pm

A very reasoned assessment.

Overpopulation - out of our hands.

Mass extinctions - out of our hands.

Self-over population - outside the EU - in our hands. Inside the EU -out of our hands.

Being a parent? Bad teachings leads to bad parenting. Again - out of our hands.

Child sexual abuse inquiry. Too little too late. Will do nothing to address the problem.

Complicated. But of course it is. Doing something worthy is never easy or simple. Neutral Neutral Question Question

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Jul 12, 2015 7:20 pm

Seems that everything is "out of our hands". It would have made old age more relaxing if we were watching the world progressing into an age of happiness.

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:51 pm

Looks like the Greeks have had Greece taken 'out of their hands'.

Greece may now become the most completely E.U. country in the E.U., with everything run from and decided by the E.U..

At least under the settlement, the Greek people should be allowed regular pocket money.

Will be interesting to see how the Greeks adapt to it. Will there be a new international elite of E.U. administrators living the good life in Athens, and a 'service industry' to 'service' it, or, will all be done by remote control?

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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  Atlas on Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:25 pm

I refer to my previous post -. It's not a good day for the Greeks. Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Re: Britain leaving the E.U.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Jul 15, 2015 12:23 am

On a smaller scale, but things aren't looking too good at Calais either, estimated five thousand refugees living there now, more expected. In the long run, who will absorb them, France or the UK?

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