Re: Going down the pan (Nile Pan?) again

Charly Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:21 pm

hahahahaha Yeah right! Rolling Eyes

Charly Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:24 pm

UP THE DALE wrote:
Charly wrote:Is it just me or what or does anyone else think its UTD who is sometimes wrong or is he really Mr Right (with the first name Always)

????????????

I am not always wrong but unlike you I will admit it when I am.

I said sometimes so where did I say you always got it wrong?
oops there you go, you got it wrong about what I said Razz

UP THE DALE Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:26 pm

Yes I got it wrong. I apologise.

UP THE DALE Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:34 pm

I am sometimes wrong, and will happily admit when I am proved to be wrong. Some people when they are proven wrong just say "whatever" , most will do the decent thing an admit it. I suppose some people are not decent.

Charly Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:39 pm

Of course and its up to you to decide who is decent or not? scratch

UP THE DALE Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:49 pm

We all make judgements and in my judgement it is a failing of someone when they don't do the decent thing and admit when they have made a mistake, especially when they have accused someone of doing something that they haven't.

Charly Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:55 pm

Thats rich coming from you!
You have made personal attacks on other posters for their opinions then tell them if they dont like it they can complain to Admin... then you suggested others are 'not decent'
I dont know how you get the idea you are someone who can make these decisions about others

UP THE DALE Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:06 am

And YOU don't make personal attacks on people? Laughing

Not once has admin told me I am out of order. I make my own mind up what I think about people, that's called having your own mind. You make judgements about others, so you can hardly have a go at others for it. Exclamation

Charly Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:11 am

And its goodnight from me!
Sleep well Mark

UP THE DALE Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:41 am

Yes good night, Linda.

Dalelad Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:28 pm

The only thing I'm sorry about was joining in.

cyfrifia Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:31 pm

Mojo Hill wrote:
UP THE DALE wrote:Do you agree with me Hinch that circumcision for medical reasons, should only be allowed and thus provided for on the NHS, and if someone over the age of 16 wants it done they can pay for it privately?

It is provided for under the NHS for the variety of reasons, yet 'back-street,' home-base and other locations continue to be used:

27.11.12 BBC News - Manchester baby boy 'bled to death after circumcision'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20503660

The baby boy’s parents are originally from Nigeria, where circumcision of newborns is religious tradition for Christian families as well.

The medic is on trial on a charge of manslaughter by gross negligence. It seems the parents have no culpability ?

Nurse found guilty of manslaughter.
http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1596233_nurse-guilty-of-manslaughter-after-botched-home-circumcision-in-oldham-manchester-crown-court-hears

Hinch Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:51 pm

£100 a snip? That will help me eke out my retirement. As Mrs H is a midwife, she'll be able to send me loads of work.

Poppyanna555 Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:08 pm

How sad.....

Hinch Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:20 pm

Now, now Poppy. It's all part of our rich and diverse cultural heritage. Very Happy

cyfrifia Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:22 pm

Manslaughter is a very serious verdict that implies malice or intent to injure, whereas this looks, on the face of it like ignorance and lack of care.

Hinch Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:41 pm

In our nurses Code of Conduct it usually equates recklessness as being similar to wilfulness. Apart from the legal penalties, she should be struck off for life.

As a registered nurse AND midwife, there is no defence for this sort of kitchen table butchery.

Guest Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:28 pm

cyfrifia wrote:Manslaughter is a very serious verdict that implies malice or intent to injure, whereas this looks, on the face of it like ignorance and lack of care.

Cyfrifia: Your "implication" of malice or intended injury is flawed and manslaughter can be a very complex charge.

The 67-year old nurse was clearly found guilty of manslaughter by gross negligence, which falls into the category of 'involuntary manslaughter' ... that is where a person kills, but does so without the specific intent to kill, or cause GBH.

Gross Negligence Manslaughter in this case is where the baby's death was found to be the result of a grossly negligent act or omission(s) on the part of the defendant. As a registered nurse and midwife the defendant herself would most certainly be aware that the the procedure is available on the NHS. What a tragic loss of an innocent child's life. I imagine she will have already been 'officially' suspended from nursing in Britain.

cyfrifia Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:36 pm

I understood manslaughter to be only one step down from murder, but 'involuntary manslaughter' sounds rather different. It's almost impossible to imagine this case could be anything other than lack of care and lack of knowledge.

Guest Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:57 pm

cyfrifia wrote:I understood manslaughter to be only one step down from murder, but 'involuntary manslaughter' sounds rather different. It's almost impossible to imagine this case could be anything other than lack of care and lack of knowledge.

For Pete's Sake! Surprised

There's Voluntary and Involuntary Manslaughter. If it's of real interest to you, there's no need for imagining: There's a four-stage test for gross negligence manslaughter, known as the Adomako Test, that can be referenced and easily understood on the internet.

cyfrifia Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:09 pm

Crikey, we are not all familiar with the "Adomako Test". How the law and courts work is a mystery to people who don't get arrested much. Cool

Guest Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:25 pm

cyfrifia wrote:Crikey, we are not all familiar with the "Adomako Test". How the law and courts work is a mystery to people who don't get arrested much.

P r e c i s e l y, and just a wee example of why assumptions or implications may often be flawed.

The vagaries across civil, criminal and family law, and the different types of courts, are not only mysteries to people who don't get arrested much. They are minefields needing different legal knowledge-training and honed specialists. Who was it said, ' The Law is an Ass? ' Smile

cyfrifia Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:05 am

Is the law an ass? The charge of manslaughter seems ill defined, or perhaps too closely defined. These people who killed a man with deliberate and targeted anti-social behavior, were almost charged with manslaughter, but not quite, so they go completely free. Shouldn't there be a charge something a bit less serious than manslaughter, but more serious than no charge at all?

http://menmedia.co.uk/rochdaleobserver/news/s/1593110_coroner-slams-neighbours-of-rochdale-man-64-who-died-of-heart-attack-after-row-over-loud-music

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