Sex grooming: 9 more charged

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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  Hinch on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:43 pm

Mojo Hill wrote: We've been looking at the very worst kind of grooming taking place here.

Yes, this is the thing to keep sight of together with the sheer numbers and level of conspiracy/organisation needed.

This is not merely part of a bigger national picture. There are various aggravating factors that make the Rochdale case particularly ignominious. A lot of sand has been thrown in our faces such as the lack of regulation in private care homes. This may well be a factor but only one of the victims came from one of these.

The most salient points to me are the scale of the crimes and the cultural context together with the thus-far ineffectual response by the Council, social services GMP and possibly the relevant health and education departments.

The media-circus may well have moved onto another town; 'Savileville' in this case but I believe that there are massive and significant issues in Rochdale that have yet to be fully identified; let alone addressed.

As for courses being set up to defend what is being interpreted as 'attacks on Islam', my gast is well and truly flabbered!


Last edited by Councillor Duxbury on Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  Jeanie on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:45 pm

Totally agree Mojo !
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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:53 pm

More of the same. Good to see the police on to it, and this time not in Rochdale. Not far away though.

http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/10014120.Girls_picked_up_in_Allerton_attacked_by_men_in_car__court_is_told/

"The 14-year-old was grabbed by the throat and incited to perform a sex act in the locked car and burned on the face with a cigarette"

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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  teamplayer2 on Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:08 pm

These people need to be locked up for life. A few years jail is a waste of time and do the present laws really protect vulnerable people from such vile criminals.

Why did the authorities fail to act in the first place is the biggest crime of all and the most sickening. Let us hope that the people who failed to act are also brought to book or justice in some cases.
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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  Guest on Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:43 pm

teamplayer2 wrote:These people need to be locked up for life. A few years jail is a waste of time and do the present laws really protect vulnerable people from such vile criminals?

Why did the authorities fail to act in the first place is the biggest crime of all and the most sickening. Let us hope that the people who failed to act are also brought to book or justice in some cases.


TP: Nothing will change unless our communities remain assertive about a child's right to childhood and united, uncompromising safeguarding. There are bits in the press ....


Rochdale children as young as 10 to be taught after sex gang scandal

http://menmedia.co.uk/rochdaleobserver/news/s/1592375_rochdale-children-as-young-as-10-to-be-taught-about-grooming-after-sex-gang-scandal

The scheme focuses on some common scenarios – showing how young people can be lured online or become involved in cyber bullying. Other topics covered include ‘sexting’ and publishing personal photographs. All commendable, and again child-centred.


Predatory, physical grooming remains a crux of Rochdale cases and I’ve yet to see anything that directly debates the local sex ring scandals, which they seem to have been re-named as (gentler media than child ‘rapes’ ) and open up more about potential offenders traits.


The council's own review, or a summary of, was announced as due by the end of October.





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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:30 pm

No, 'Local sex ring scandal' doesn't quite describe the organised, merciless, methodical, repeated and multiple rapes of many children, using hard drugs, alcohol and violence, the attitudes of the criminals displayed in court, the racist edge to it, the failure of authorities to respond to it, or the non-reaction of the community it happened in. Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  Chill37 on Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:16 pm

Ive just heard today that the Ex Childrens Services boss, Steve Garner, was too 'ill' to appear before the House Of Commons Home Affairs Select Committee .

Well doesnt matter just summon him in again at a later date when he is 'better'.

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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:58 pm

Chill37 wrote:Ive just heard today that the Ex Childrens Services boss, Steve Garner, was too 'ill' to appear before the House Of Commons Home Affairs Select Committee .

Well doesnt matter just summon him in again at a later date when he is 'better'.


Chill27: It's next Tuesday and Keith Vaz MP, as the Chair of this committee, has first and foremost blatantly pushed for attendees assurances that there are no cultural-racial dimensions to the Rochdale cases. This has been Vaz's personal thrust and stance ever since Jack Straw drew media attention for suggesting otherwise in the past.


The record of previous questions and answers of this particular Select Committee is an open public document, previously contributed to by Mr Colin Lambert and the GMP Chief P Fahy, with a GMP aide.


Of course Steve Garner can be recalled under the terms of the committee at any later date, but I question why his head in particular is being highlighted. He reported into other RMBC Executives who recently opted for early retirement-voluntary redundancies. Older media articles about relevant trials give these officers' names, along with those of councillor Portfolio holders and, crucially, the LSP's Safeguarding 'Leaders.'


Let's have justice, not sacrificial lambs or tokenistic bods , and take the darned politics or 'spins' out of this dire community situation.







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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Nov 02, 2012 5:42 pm

It is all looking rather iffy.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9253978/Keith-Vaz-says-child-sex-ring-case-not-race-issue.html
As you might expect.

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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  Charly on Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:30 pm

Should be interesting to watch.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/74886/mohammed-shafiq-commissioned-to-present-bbc-inside-out-programme
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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  Guest on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:01 pm

Charly wrote:Should be interesting to watch.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/74886/mohammed-shafiq-commissioned-to-present-bbc-inside-out-programme


That link content, showing an airing on Monday 5 November at 7.30pm on BB1, strongly suggests Shafiq has also ‘joined The Establishment club’ of making the core of his comments and review child centred. This seems to be the shared angle that public figures and organisations have been firmly channelled towards, thereby evading needs to examine cultural context.


Mohammed Shafiq’s contribution to the BBC documentary ‘ Exposed: Groomed for Sex,’ in which Adil Ray investigated the grooming of young girls for sex by Pakistani men in the UK, reflected Mohammed Shafiq’s shock at persistent ethnic facets.


Extracts from his past media statements show his conclusions were made from an outlook over time, as the following light illustrations ...


The Times 2011 ‘We need to establish why such men are mainly choosing to groom white teenagers and not Muslim girls. The simple answer is that these people think that white girls have fewer morals and are less valuable than our girls. They also believe that by grooming white girls there will be no reprisal within their own community. This is a form of racism that is abhorrent and totally unacceptable in a society that prides itself on equality and justice.’


Mirror Group, 09 May 2012 A Muslim group said the Rochdale sex grooming scandal has exposed a section of the British Pakistani community who believe ‘white teenage girls are worthless and can be abused without a second thought’. Mohammed Shafiq, chief executive of campaign group the Ramadhan Foundation, insisted race was central to the crimes and blasted Muslim community elders for ‘once again burying their heads in the sand’.

Mr Shafiq, who was born and raised in Rochdale, insisted the case was about race. He said: "There is a significant problem for the British Pakistani community. There is an over representation amongst recent convictions in the crime of on-street grooming. There should be no silence in addressing the issue of race as this is central to the actions of these criminals.

"They think that white teenage girls are worthless and can be abused without a second thought. It is this sort of behaviour that is bringing shame on our community. I urge the police and the councils not to be frightened to address this issue. There is a strong lesson (to be learned) that you can't ignore race or be over sensitive.[/font]


Local authorities, politicians and the law enforcement services need to understand that pushing for exclusion zones in reviews and debate, also by evasion, are potentially very foolish fodder




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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:20 pm

Perhaps there is a general view that very little can be done about the "cultural context", so, a child centered approach, hoping to educate about the dangers is most useful.

Lessons drawn from the 'war on drugs', where it is accepted that very little can be done to prevent the flow of drugs, and so it is most useful to try to educate about the dangers.

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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  Hinch on Sat Nov 03, 2012 2:46 pm

Mojo Hill wrote:Chill27: It's next Tuesday and Keith Vaz MP, as the Chair of this committee, has first and foremost blatantly pushed for attendees assurances that there are no cultural-racial dimensions to the Rochdale cases.


This is akin to putting Fred & Rosemary West up for trial and the judge directing that the subjects of murder, incest, rape and child abuse can't be mentioned.

Vaz is a fool and a dangerous one at that.

An inquiry that would only operate within these ridiculous parameters would have no credibility and would be a waste of public money.

Perhaps more importantly, it would cause even more mistrust between communities and even more importantly, would send out signals that crimes involving race-hated or race-exploitation are too hot to handle.

If, as Cylfrifia seems to suggest that there is a general view that little can be done about the 'cultural context' in which these crimes took place, then this is horrifying as it seems to suggest that we have a massive and growing problem that isn't being either recognised or tackled.

Dame Janet Smith would have been the ideal person to head this but she is otherwise occupied at the moment with the Jimmy Savile nightmare. When she led the Shipman Inquiry, she made it plain that she would not be restricted as to the scope of the Inquiry but would go wherever the evidence took her.

The BNP, EDL and North West Infidels had better make sure they get in a fresh stock of membership application forms.

The man's a clown.

Great couple of posts BTW MJH. Some of the best we've had on the forum.
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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:05 pm

Councillor Duxbury wrote:
If, as Cylfrifia seems to suggest that there is a general view that little can be done about the 'cultural context' in which these crimes took place, then this is horrifying as it seems to suggest that we have a massive and growing problem that isn't being either recognised or tackled.

I agree with you, councillor, that Kieth Vaz M.P. is a big problem.

There is little reason to expect the 'cultural context' we have to change much at all, but that only means we have an unpleasant, continuing problem, rather than a "massive and growing" one.

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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  Guest on Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:43 pm

cyfrifia wrote:
Lessons drawn from the 'war on drugs', where it is accepted that very little can be done to prevent the flow of drugs, and so it is most useful to try to educate about the dangers.
cyfrifia wrote:
I agree with you, councillor, that Kieth Vaz M.P. is a big problem.
There is little reason to expect the 'cultural context' we have to change much at all, but that only means we have an unpleasant, continuing problem, rather than a "massive and growing" one.



• war on drugs is a massive problem; cultivation, manufacture are firstly for great financial profits;


China eradicated its opium problem immediately after the Revolution in 1949. There were 70 million junkies in China -- addicted to opium, morphine and heroin. All persons involved in the Chinese drug trade were summarily executed. The penalty for possession of narcotics in China is death: Draconian laws hit pipe dreamers.

Opium farming has increased across Afghanistan in 2012, driven by insecurity and massive corruption Drugs help fund the Taliban, but Afghanistan's elite is also earning huge amounts from the trade and the government lacks the political will to clamp down on a crop worth hundreds of millions a year

The bleak figures were laid out in an annual risk assessment PDF, which has previously been announced with a press release, but this year was uploaded to the UN website with no publicity.


• I do not accept child rapes, street grooming are firstly for great financial profits

• I do not accept child rapes, street grooming are an unpleasant problem -- see them as loathsome atrocities against vulnerable youngsters.

• Shafiq will go with tide changes and Vaz political current; Shafiq wants to be an MP. Watch the Inside-out- programme information has been texted across Rochdale Muslim communities; suggests comfort view in main.

• Nothing came from 30 May 2012 – ‘New Rochdale Community Forum launched in wake of grooming case’; launch, regional media, TV, public relations, no meeting from them in 5 months since then. I read the spoonfeed by Mr Lambert to Commons Committee 2 week later that this is a great working initiative by all communities across all of the borough.



I am looking for the great working initiative today and tomorrow.










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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:05 pm

Very interesting Taz. I do not see drugs and grooming as being the same thing, rather that the two problems, or "loathsome atrocities" as you say, cannot be eradicated without, as you describe happened in China, very extreme measures.

As long as we have groups of men intent on grooming children, and, similarly, people intent on dealing in drugs, one strategy to attempt to cope with both problems is to educate children as to the dangers. A simplistic approach, but may have some merit.

To really tackle the grooming problem in Rochdale and elsewhere, a very serious investigation would need to happen, looking into many dark corners to find the truth, and following up with powerful actions.

My guess is that isn't going to happen, and the best we can hope for is that ordinary people will become more aware what goes on, recognise patterns of behavior, and be prepared to intervene to help and protect children, rather than blame them as has happened in the past.

http://blogs.channel4.com/jackie-long-on-social-affairs/rochdale-grooming-review-one-childs-story/383


Last edited by cyfrifia on Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  Hinch on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:20 pm

And yet here, the first thing that Keith Vaz wants to identify are the particular dark corners they WON'T look into.

Scared of losing votes no doubt.

A high-powered judge should have led this; not a party-timeserver.
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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  UP THE DALE on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:48 pm

Wonder if the truth will finally come out regarding the ALLEGED grooming by the Tory MP from the Thatcher era, along with other toffs, top civil servants etc.

Sex grooming, rape etc is all about power, whatever the sex, race of the victims and scum who do the grooming and or raping.

The guilty ones who recently got put in prison for their disgusting attacks in Heywood and Rochdale, picked their victims mainly because of accessibility and availability, of the victims, and partly racist motives.

AS for drugs, the using and or distribution of drugs cuts across all sections of the population.
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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  UP THE DALE on Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:23 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/nov/03/man-claims-sexually-abused-politician
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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  Charly on Sat Nov 03, 2012 11:06 pm

Nearer home, Operation Cleopatra in the 90's investigated Knowl View School in Norden, nothing happened with all the evidence collected.
I still have paperwork and documents from the time, nobody wanted to know about what happened to the boys who attended there.

http://menmedia.co.uk/rochdaleobserver/news/s/1015186_compensation_bid_over_ordeal_at_knowl_view

http://menmedia.co.uk/rochdaleobserver/news/s/531340_school_sex_abuse_horror_revealed

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boys-in-special-school-were-at-risk-of-aids-1600318.html

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/knowl_view_staff_including_paid
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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  UP THE DALE on Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:42 am

http://www.tom-watson.co.uk/2012/11/10-days-that-shook-my-world
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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  Guest on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:49 am

[quote="cyfrifia"]Very interesting Taz. I do not see drugs and grooming as being the same thing, rather that the two problems, or "loathsome atrocities" as you say, cannot be eradicated without, as you describe happened in China, very extreme measures.


• and I very obvious do not see them as being the same thing.


The link and my post came after your writing on Fri 2 Nov 2012 - 23:20 of

Perhaps there is a general view that very little can be done about the "cultural context", so, a child centered approach, hoping to educate about the dangers is most useful.

Lessons drawn from the 'war on drugs', where it is accepted that very little can be done to prevent the flow of drugs, and so it is most useful to try to educate about the dangers.


• Credit that you went and found the Vaz line he produced for media and politicians immediately after Liverpool trial this year.

• You wrote you are on outer edge of Rochdale and may not know trials when the rape and grooming was done by groups from here away from this town. http://menmedia.co.uk/rochdaleobserver/news/s/1467595_top-muslim-cleric-slams-evil-sex-gangs; just one from 2011

• We all have the Rochdale doorstep to look at as own precedence. Mainstream political parties are going for votes and using far right as their bogey. Must have short noses because punishing, gagging the challengers on dark corners gives power to range of extremists




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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Nov 04, 2012 11:58 am

I know nothing, Taz, I am from Todmorden.

I don't understand the situation in Rochdale as closely as those who live there. I don't think anyone at all from outside the town can sort out the problems of Rochdale, I think the answers will have to come from within the town.

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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  Guest on Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:29 pm

cyfrifia wrote:I know nothing, Taz, I am from Todmorden.

I don't understand the situation in Rochdale as closely as those who live there. I don't think anyone at all from outside the town can sort out the problems of Rochdale, I think the answers will have to come from within the town.

There are Rochdale rape grooming trials online since 2010 but it's easier to forget them for some people living here. You are interesting to read and very funny sometimes. Todmorden is near so you are a neighbour and the interest is good to see. Sad when many Rochdalians can not be bothered to talk about the serious crimes here of street grooming of children. Sad when politicians spin for the vote; hidden crimes from community can go underground.
Sad is not a big enough word.




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Re: Sex grooming: 9 more charged

Post  UP THE DALE on Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:54 pm

It's frightening to think how much grooming might still be going on in Rochdale and other places.

What other instances have shown from within and outside Rochdale, the scum who carry out these disgusting crimes are of all classes and sections of the population. This includes the Cambridge House episode from the 60's and Knowl View from late 60's/early 70's through to the 90's, as well as the ex Tory MP's sex ring case, that the link from above shows, from the 70's/80's that may well still be happening.

These instances have links to powerful politicians, but cases were dropped, with pressure from above a reason given in each case to drop or lose the case. Frightening to think a very prominent ex local politician/business man was involved in such matters, allegedly, certainly at Cambridge House but also possibly at Knowl View school. And of course you have the Saville case, which could well turn out to be a sex ring. All of these involve cult, powerful figures from politics, "entertainment", top levels of civil service, and from what I understand none of them were or are Muslim. In fact many are or were supposed to be so called upstanding Christians.

So yes lets demand the Muslim population help sort out their perverts who are involved with such disgusting crimes, but NEVER take the eye of the real fact that the vast majority of sex crimes, grooming etc is actually carried out by white males, often middle class or upper class, but ultimately all classes, including very powerful people, like police, civil servants, MPs, entertainers, judges, priests etc and it's been possibly even the Royal Family.
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