Cyril Smith

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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Jeanie on Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:00 pm

An excellent post Mojo the truth will come as others were also named in improper activities at the same time but as you so rightly say what is happening now is shambolic.
Time will tell I am sure !
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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Prudence Tempered on Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:31 pm

That's right Jean. The main sound I heard as Danczuk spoke was that of axes being ground against his enemies both inside and outside the Labour Party.

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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:57 pm

Yes, good comments, Mojo, and yes there was a distant sound of axe grinding. The emphasis should remain on the main problem.

Nicola Blackwood spoke well, and with understanding in the debate. She said, amongst other things,

Quote: One problem is that many victims are slowly lured into exploitation by someone posing as a boyfriend and are then kept under control by threats. They are encouraged to commit petty offences, drink, take drugs and play truant. During that process, their relationship with their school, their family and their carers increasingly deteriorates and they become seen as disruptive and a bad influence, with the police and social services perhaps considering them to be petty criminals who are making "bad choices". In that context, their relationship with their real family deteriorates ever more and their relationship with and dependence on exploiters, whom they see as their real family, becomes ever more entrenched, with threats, violence and intimidation commonplace.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/commons/todays-commons-debates/read/unknown/418/#c418

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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Atlas on Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:35 am

Jeanie. I can assure you that the rumours were no just rumours - as told to me one day at Cambridge House were I worked as outside maintenance contractor for five years in the early 1960s. Charly. You have the episode in one of my books. True it 'only' came from one of the lads then involved and he was only a 'scrote' (according to the warden) but I believe him at the time. You need to understand the 'times' we were in and the 'way' things were done in those days. Hinch has a copy of RAP (Rochdales Alternative Paper) which gave a middle page spread to the whole affair at the time and the report of the papers forwarded to the DPP at the time and the refusal of the DPP on the basis that insufficient grounds/evidence were available to pursue further investigation - ergo 'file closed'. We lived with 'skeletons in the cupboards' as a matter of course. It was a way of life then considered 'better' for the 'public image'. Things are different today.
Should it all come out? If it will do any good yes. But I doubt things will change very much regardless. Sad
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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Irishman on Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:26 am

Well I believe it may well help those in care now and in the future when these paedophiles realise that the kids they are abusing are going to grow up and be adults looking for Justice.

I’m fairly sure now those that have abused in the past and even now in the present will be shaking in their boots when the doorbell goes and rightly so.

It’s difficult for me to understand the reasoning for not coming forward when these men were alive, suddenly to have 300 people claiming abuse when Jimmy has been dead for a year or so doesn’t make much sense until you realise his estate is worth quite a bit of money and they are all going after it now, when the man isn’t here to plead innocent or guilt.

I believe we go down a difficult and dangerous route here should any of these victims get paid out from either the BBC or indeed Jimmy’s estate. There would be nothing to stop me claiming John Lennon abuse me as a child can anyone help me get justice and a little bit of money on the side.

If you take away the money element I just wonder how many of those 300 continue their claims. If I were a victim of his abuse in the same circumstances money would be the last thing I’d want from Jimmy, that would make me feel I sold my body to him. I’d want to see him stopped, in prison but after his death seems like I lost all my options on it, what justice are these victims looking for, is it (Cash)

This would be like a rape victim taking the rapist to court for money rather than a prison sentence.

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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Spartacus on Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:38 am

It is very hard to accept that someone you know, someone you may respect, someone you like, perhaps even someone you love is a child abuser.

Most of us have an stereotype image on a child abuser in our minds. We demonise them. They must be evil. Wicked. Odd. They stand out a mile. Perhaps some do.

Others though are nice people. They might be selfless in many ways. Hard working, loving family members. Workers of good in the community. They can be respected and relied upon in other areas of their lives. Good company in both their work and social lives.

Child abusers are human not demons. They are both Jekyll and Hyde. This is one of the reasons many get away with it for so long. The majority who only ever know Jeckyll will always dismiss the few who have been confronted with Hyde.

This is why I can understand the RMBC Councillor giving a reference to one of the defendants in the recent Rochdale cases. I can accept he wrote a reference for the man he knew only as 'Dr Jekyll' and he never met 'Mr Hyde'. However, when he discovered his mistake I do think he should have done the honourable thing and resigned.

When you discover someone you know has a Mr Hyde side to his/her character it is hard to come to terms with. I know because I have experience of it. Luckily for me it was not someone I knew extremely well or was close to. It was a shock though. When I was first found out I thought it must have been a huge mistake.

Following such a revelation memories of the good person you knew are overwhelmed by the crimes they have committed. Over time you are faced with a dilemma. Do you let the wicked acts of Mr Hyde totally erase your experiences of Dr Jeckyll?

I believe the allegations against Cyril Smith. One of his victims told me his story years ago, long before the man was dead.

The man who told me his story had spoken with a number of people over the years but none were prepared to see the image of St. Cyril of Rochdale tarnished. The did not see what good it would do. When he told me his story, the man only wanted someone to listen. There was no intention in him to pursue the matter any further or see action taken. He just wanted to be heard.

When someone speaks up we need to listen and give them the benefit of the doubt until the matter is fully investigated -- no matter who they accuse or whether that person is alive or dead.








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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:06 pm

In Simon Danczuk's speech to the House of Commons yesterday he said

Quote: "The public began to believe that private children’s homes were part of the problem. The reality is that that was not the case, and only one victim had actually stayed in a children’s home. That became apparent months later, when the local safeguarding board published its review. First, it hardly mentioned private children’s homes because they were not part of the problem."

Seems he was talking about the recent cases of young girls being systematically groomed by gangs in Rochdale.

M.P. for Kiethley, Mr, Kris Hopkins, said.

Quote: "The vast majority of child abusers in this country are white. As my hon. Friend the Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Nicola Blackwood) said, there are abusers in every village and every town. The demographics say that they will be white, but we should not get away from the fact that gangs of Muslim men are going round and raping white kids at this moment in time. That is an horrendous thing to say, but it is the fact of what is happening."

Celebrity child abuse may be grabbing the headlines, but the main issue for the safety of children must be to recognise the main problem, the grooming and sexual exploitation of mainly young white girls, by organised gangs using tried and tested methods, which has been going on in towns and cities for years, and will continue unless and until the problem, despite politically correct taboos of race, religion, ethnicity, and culture, is at last faced up to fairly and squarely.

Nicola Blackwood M.P. said

Quote: "I am here today because in March this year I received a call from the Thames Valley police to warn me that there were about to be 14 arrests for child sexual exploitation in Oxford. Operation Bullfinch has so far led to nine prosecutions, which will go to the Old Bailey in January. In total, the group concerned will face 51 charges, including the prostitution of girls under the age of 16 and administering drugs for the purposes of rape, trafficking and grooming. There are more than 50 victims, who are aged between 11 and 16, and the exploitation has carried on over an eight-year period. All of this happened minutes from my cosy flat in north Oxford."

The gang connections between drug dealing, sex trafficking and grooming are not to be ignored, Nicola Blackwood M.P. realised and understood what was happening "minutes from her cosy flat".

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm121113/debtext/121113-0002.htm#12111384000001

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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Hinch on Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:44 pm

Jeanie wrote:
Hinch wrote:So then Jeanie. How do we get to know the facts if they is no investigation?

One way or another I am sure the truth will come out !

So what about the victims in the meantime? Do they wait another twenty to thirty years and several hunded shredded police files later?

You are puttting the reputation of someone you admire before the truth and the duty to any alleged victims.
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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Irishman on Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:46 pm

Where I come from it's called not rocking the boat Hinch, the Catholic church tried that one.

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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Prudence Tempered on Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:49 pm

Another factor is that dead people can't issue legal injunctions to block investigations about themselves.

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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Spartacus on Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:20 pm

Prudence Tempered wrote:Another factor is that dead people can't issue legal injunctions to block investigations about themselves.

Agreed.

On the other hand powerful ones can and do pull plenty of strings whilst alive.


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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Hinch on Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:13 pm

From today's 'Northern Voices'.

CYRIL SMITH: DOCTORING WITH INTENT?


Northern Voices finds new witness to 'Sins of Cyril' at Boys' Home in 1960s

'WHEN you were ill at Cambridge House,' Edward Shorrock told Northern Voices (NV), 'Cyril was round like a shot.' He was speaking to me last week about Cyril Smith, the former Liberal M.P. for Rochdale who died just over two years ago, and who Eddie said had 'abused his powers'while he was the Secretary of the association that ran Cambridge House boys' hostel in the early 1960s. In May 1979, the Rochdale Alternative Paper (RAP)exposed how Smith indulged himself in strange power-play interactions with some of the young lads resident at Cambridge House: enacting sexually flavoured punishments, spanking bare bums and administering curious medical examinations on some of the youngest inmates.


Northern Voiceshas seen a list of names of his victims, lads in their mid-teens between 1962 and 1964, who told RAP in the late 1970s that Cyril made advances to them, and subjected them to spankings and degrading medical inspections. All of this was published in the May 1979 issue of RAP. Yet, within 3 hours of this story being distributed to then Rochdale newsagents, Cyril got his solicitor to issue a writ on the editors of RAP. As John Walker, a former editor of RAP, told me in 2011: 'Cyril slapped a writ on us 3 hours after publication... this would be regarded by lawyers as a "gagging writ",' and 'it was a legal ploy used by Smith's solicitors to frighten off main stream media interest, allowing Cyril to say that the allegations by the lads were untrue, and that he was instigating libel proceedings.' In the end only Private Eye and the New Statesmancovered the story. This 'gagging writ'against RAPwas never followed through by Cyril's solicitors (see Northern Voices No.12); John Walker told me: 'Eventually we challenged the lawyers (of Cyril) to sue or drop the writ (and) they quietly did so and made a small token payment to our almost negligible costs.' In 2011, John Walker told N.V.: 'I stand by every word that we wrote then,' John also added 'He (Smith) used his position of authority to further his own rather selfish and unpleasant ends... but more seriously, he took advantage of some downtrodden, disadvantaged people in society whose fate had been put in his hands, and further damaged them.'


Edward Shorrock who spoke out for the first time this week, was one of those vulnerable lads who had been arrested as a bicycle thief in Bury at about 16 years-old and sentenced to two years probation, only later to be sent by the probation service to Cambridge House, on Castlemere Street, Rochdale. Journalists including the Rochdale Observerhave seen three sworn statement from three of the former Cambridge House residents, but Eddie did not give a statement to RAP's solicitors in the 1979 because he had moved to Bristol in 1977. Today both he and another lad, Barry Fitton, have gone public and have given their accounts to the lobby journalist, Paul Waugh (a Rochdale lad himself) on his site at www.politicshome.com. Eddie told me last week that he was more troubled by Cyril's 'abuse of power'at Cambridge House, than the actual strange 'voyeuristic'sexual nature of his curious encounters alone with Cyril which involved undressing; it was a kind of 'doctoring with intent', a peculiar exercise in power-play.


Cyril, then a Rochdale Labour Councillor, Alderman and eventually to be Liberal M.P. for Rochdale, had a kind of charismatic chemistry that dominated those around him and enabled him to manipulate situations through a method that would now be called 'networking'. Such has been his influence in the town as a local hero that last year he was blessed by having a blue plaque erected to him on our famous Gothic-revival Town Hall, an award agreed in haste by the Rochdale Township committee. That must be something of a record given that it breaches the strict criteria guidelines recommended by English Heritage, a kind of extraordinary networking beyond the grave to overcome political opposition and the rule of 25-years after death. Immense power indeed, for a Rochdale lad who says of himself in his autobiography 'BIG CYRIL': 'As a ragged-arsed kid, dressed in second hand clothes I knew the grinding poverty of a mill town in the thirties'. To this day with his blue plaque anointing our most famous and adored Gothic revival building, one that even Adolf Hitler reputably praised, Cyril seems to be truly a giant among pygmies.


Will Edward Shorrock now become 'Eddie the Giant-Killer'? Will our great British media at long last dare to take on the might of the now deceased Sir Cyril Smith and his supporters? Is today's news the beginning of the end of a great legend in our town? It fair takes your breath away pondering the possibilities of how the Rochdale political establishment and the Rochdale Observerwill react to a fallen hero; a fallen hero indeed, because it was on Armistice Day, last Sunday, that Eddie gave his own unvarnished account of the goings-on at Cambridge House in the 1960s to Paul Waugh. On the day he left Cambridge House, Eddie had always had the parting words of Cyril ringing in his ears and it was something like: 'nobody crosses me!'

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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Hinch on Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:15 pm

Prudence Tempered wrote:Another factor is that dead people can't issue legal injunctions to block investigations about themselves.

So then, why did Smith never sue in his lifetime when both RAP & Private Eye published these 'unfounded allegations'?
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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:19 pm

The House of Commons debate on Child Sexual Exploitation yesterday went far beyond the case of Cyril Smith. The phrase 'cover up' was used several times about Rochdale.

If what was said was credible and serious, relevant documents and records should be seized immediately.

If what was said was just wittering and guff, I wasted time watching it.

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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Hinch on Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:21 pm

Paul Waugh's piece from the politicshome.com website:-

Anyone who knows me knows that I’m a Waugh as in Rochdale*, rather than a Waugh as in Brideshead. Born and bred in the town, I’ve always been proud of a birthplace that has both a rich history and a markedly defiant streak to its nature.

Rochdale is also the birthplace of John Bright, the great Liberal statesman known for his iron determination to champion his cause. Bright’s statue still casts a knowing Victorian eye over the populace from a hill above the Esplanade. The town boasts a fine neo-Gothic town hall - so fine that, legend has it, Hitler decided to spare it from his bombs – and its eponymous canal powered trade across the North West even before the railways arrived.

Like many northern towns that boomed in the industrial revolution, Rochdale’s cotton and engineering factories were decimated by economic change after the war. Times have been tough for many, but Rochdalians have often fought back to defy their stereotype of a depressed mill town. From Cargo Studios (which saw tracks recorded by Joy Division, the Fall and Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark) to the success of Rochdale lass Anna Friel (of Brookside and now London stage fame), we weren’t all flat caps and whippets.

Yet despite this variety, it’s undeniable that for many people outside the town, Rochdale was famous for just three of its offspring: Gracie Fields, a 'struggling' football club and Cyril Smith.

In Cyril Smith’s case, it wasn’t really an exaggeration to describe him as Mr Rochdale. He served as MP for the town for 20 years, from 1972 to 1992. But before that he was a councillor for just as long, having won his first council seat at the tender age of 23, a record for the time.

Born into poverty, his was an impressive story of a working class boy who pulled himself up by his bootstraps, setting up his own springs factory and rising through the political ranks to become Mayor, Alderman and ultimately a Member of Parliament. Like the town itself, he was stubbornly independent.

As chairman of the Estates Committee, Big Cyril had a very direct impact on the fabric of the town, playing a key role in slum clearance and replacing older buildings with new 1960s blocks.

But he always had a keen interest in youth development, chairing the Education Committee, the Youth Advisory Committee and Youth Employment Committee. He was the driving force behind the creation of a new ‘Hostel for Working Boys’ at Cambridge House in 1962, an affordable place for youngsters from troubled homes.

Allegations about Smith’s conduct at Cambridge House were first aired in 1979 by the Rochdale Alternative Press (RAP). Only Private Eye printed their substance, but a writ served by Smith seemed to deter any other national interest. As a boy I remember the fuss caused by the RAP story but the controversy seemed to melt away after he was re-elected as Liberal MP in the ’79 election. Smith and his family strenuously denied any wrongdoing.

Today, two of the former residents at Cambridge House have gone on the record for the first time (see my extended piece HERE). In Barry Fitton’s case, he is going public with allegations that he previously made anonymously. But even in 1979, this appeared not to be idle gossip: he along with other boys, signed an affidavit to back up his claims that Smith subjected him to punishments. Like the others, he had also been interviewed by police in the late 1960s but nothing came of the case. Far from jumping on a bandwagon of the Savile affair, as some cynics may allege, Mr Fitton would argue he has tried and failed to get justice more than 30 years ago for abuse that happened nearly 50 years ago.

In Eddie Shorrock’s case, he has never before aired the allegations either publicly or anonymously. There are other witnesses who I have not been able to track down yet, but who may also come forward.

Simon Danczuk told the House of Commons today of “young boys who were humiliated, terrified and reduced to quivering wrecks by 29 stone bully imposing himself on them”.

“What happened to them? How can they ever forget what happened to them? Why was this allowed to happen? We need to be sure that this type of investigation takes place now, that those victims get a chance to have their voices heard.”

As it happens, when he was a prominent councillor, Cyril Smith once said this:

"I want a Rochdale of which we can be proud and a Rochdale of which future generations will be proud - a Rochdale at which future generations will look and say of us, as we can say of our ancestors, 'They did not let us down.'”

The Rochdale child sex grooming case is completely separate from the Cyril Smith allegations. Yet Rochdalians can be forgiven for being depressed that the name of their town seems to be linked to one piece of bad news after another. Mr Danczuk today said he had received fresh testimony from another man who is "ashamed of what happened to him" at the hands of Smith.

There will be friends, family and loyal supporters of Cyril who feel that today's developments smear his good name. But there will be others who feel that this day is long overdue. Either way, a new investigation by Lancashire Police, and possibly the DPP, may be the only way forward.

Let’s see if the boys of Cambridge House – now pensioners - will get any sense of closure. And let’s see too if that civic pride to which Cyril Smith once referred can be somehow be restored.

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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Jeanie on Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:30 pm

Hinch wrote:
Jeanie wrote:
Hinch wrote:So then Jeanie. How do we get to know the facts if they is no investigation?

One way or another I am sure the truth will come out !

So what about the victims in the meantime? Do they wait another twenty to thirty years and several hunded shredded police files later?

You are puttting the reputation of someone you admire before the truth and the duty to any alleged victims.

Hinch I am not putting Cyril's reputation before an alleged victim I just hope for a proper investigation into the allegations to be done as I think it has been totally miss-handled I think the MP should have worked more with the police if he has the evidence

I was someone who suffered at the hands of "A very nice neighbour" many many years ago as a child which was reported my Dad battered him and got locked up for assault ! the pain & the fear never goes away I read his obituary in the local paper about 3 years ago and felt a kind of relief I sympathise with anyone who has suffered abuse.
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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Hinch on Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:57 pm

The police have repeatedly shown themselves to be either unwilling or incapable of carrying out an investigation of this type in Rochdale3. The grooming trial, Knowle View and Cambridge House have all shown this.

How many chances do you want to give them? How many more files do you want to see 'lost' or shredded?

It needs a full, independent investigation. Cambridge House was two streets from where I grew up. I had a close relative in there which explains my interest. Me and my best mate Duncan Smith used to go to Cambridge House to play snooker with the lads or play 'Tipperary' on their ancient pianola.

Duncan lived next door in the old Castlemere Methodist manse at No 10. We were always shinning over the wall into Cambridge House from 1962-4.

Although RAP blew the story in 1979, they were in possession of information much earlier. 1975 or so. Like Savile, Smith was a figure of power and influence with many friends. In truth I do not know what exactly happened but I think that there is more than enough evidence out there and alleged victims still alive to tell their story. Certainly enough to warrent an investigation.

Will we get one? Well, I won't be rushing out to Bet Fred to get odds on it.
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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Hinch on Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:23 pm

Spartacus wrote: I believe the allegations against Cyril Smith. One of his victims told me his story years ago, long before the man was dead. The man who told me his story had spoken with a number of people over the years but none were prepared to seethe image of St. Cyril of Rochdale tarnished.

And there you have the issue in a nutshell.

There are people who for whatever reason, do not want to see the 'Great Man's' name or that of his town tarnished and no amount of evidence or heart-rending tales will convince them otherwise.

OK, I accept that building up a 'sacred cow' is very time-consuming and bloody hard work. Not nice when someone comes along and chucks mud at it.

The very least we owe Smith's victims is the right to tell their story to people who will listen but there are obviously those who feel that 'respect for the dead' comes ahead of any desire to allow the alleged victims of abuse to have a voice.
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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  keithatrochdale on Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:58 pm

QUOTE:

Such has been his influence in the town as a local hero that last year he was blessed by having a blue plaque erected to him on our famous Gothic-revival Town Hall, an award agreed in haste by the Rochdale Township committee.

Seems to me this plaque should be covered, or removed immediately after these matters coming to light. And do not forget his alleged involvement is the asbestos problems that have killed many people, with more still to come.
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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Mulldog on Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:59 pm

Too much big writing on here Very Happy
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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Guest on Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:22 pm

Mulldog wrote:Too much big writing on here Very Happy


Now the local-regional media is making perverse capital of the situation with an article about the ‘feelings’ of an anonymous (why anonymous?) ex-constable and a contradictory statement from the widow of the 1969 investigation’s senior officer:


We thought Sir Cyril Smith had got away with it, says police veteran November 14, 2012 MEN

A former police officer close to the original Cyril Smith investigation says detectives were convinced of his guilt - and no stone was left unturned trying to prove it.

The Rochdale ex-constable, who asked not to be named, says police 40 years ago were ‘absolutely satisfied the accusations were true’.

But the widow of Derek Wheater, the senior officer who led the original investigation in 1969, said he always believed Sir Cyril was innocent.

The former constable said a file was prepared and passed to prosecutors, but may have been rejected because the only evidence was testimonies from children.

He said: "Police officers talk among themselves about high-profile cases and this was a very high-profile case. Cyril had just been mayor of Rochdale.

"The general feeling among the lads was he had got away with it. If you asked me now, do I believe Cyril Smith was guilty of those crimes, I would say Yes. In my own heart, I would say Cyril Smith did what he was accused of."

The former officer, who was based at Rochdale police station, said that at the time testimonies from juveniles had to be backed up by either documentary evidence or a witness statement from an adult in order to satisfy prosecutors. He also said due to a shake-up of local police forces in 1969, he would not be surprised if the file had been lost or even destroyed.


But, he said the detective inspector in charge of the investigation was ‘very, very good at his job’, adding: "If Derek Wheater was on the case there would be no stone unturned.


"I know with absolute certainty the detectives on that case did their level best. They really, really tried very, very hard to do justice to the victims. That’s what they were there for. They really did try.

"It should be investigated again. It has brought shame to the town."


Mr Wheater joined the old Rochdale Borough Police Force in 1950 and became Chief Inspector in 1968, when he also took charge of CID.

With the creation of Greater Manchester Police in 1974, he was promoted to Detective Superintendent. Following his retirement from the police in July 1976 he set up a successful private investigation firm. He died in 2007 aged 79.

His widow Jean, now in her 80s, said: "There’s nothing in it. He was absolutely innocent. My husband was a policeman. He found him innocent. He always stuck to that – that Smith was innocent."


Eye strain

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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Hinch on Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:20 pm

Mulldog wrote:Too much big writing on here Very Happy

Big man...


Big story...


BIG WRITING!
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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  Guest on Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:48 pm

The Rochdale child sex grooming case is completely separate from the Cyril Smith allegations and I believe that Simon Danczuk hasn't done either any favours by combining them in a parliamentary speech.

Boys were interviewed by the police in the late 1960’s, when the laws about children’s testimonies were chronically limited, and it’s nothing remotely like jumping on the bandwaggon of the Savile affair.

An early renewed investigation into the alleged historic abuses, by another police Force, sounds like an objective resolution that could be endorsed by all parties concerned


?

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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:14 pm

Mojo Hill wrote:The Rochdale child sex grooming case is completely separate from the Cyril Smith allegations and I believe that Simon Danczuk hasn't done either any favours by combining them in a parliamentary speech.

Yes, I was puzzled as to why Simon Danczuk chose to use his opportunity to speak to parliament and the nation on the subject of Child Sexual Exploitation by concentrating on allegations against Cyril Smith, so far in the past. His reasons are probably political, and I don't understand them.

All I could guess, considering also his attacks on people high up in Rochdale Council, was that he was trying to demonstrate that acceptance and cover up of child sexual abuse is so deeply embedded into the politics and culture of Rochdale and particularly into it's establishment and political life, going back so many years.

The focus really has to move from celebrity child abuse to the main protection issue, stopping the grooming and rape of so many young girls by organised gangs both in Rochdale and elsewhere.

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Re: Cyril Smith

Post  UP THE DALE on Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:24 am

Both types of child abuse are equally as bad and need to be investigated and stopped. To the victim abuse is abuse, whether from a celebrity/politician or from some ordinary person/s. Sometimes it's easier for these celebrity types/politicians to get under the radar and commit these sick crimes, as often parents/guardians will foolishly not be on their guard, and or believe that they don't commit crimes.

Also in my opinion it does not matter how far back abuse goes back, if there are grounds to investigate, it should be, I don't care if the evil bastard is dead, or alive the truth should come out.
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Re: Cyril Smith

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