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Guardsman in a turban

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Post  Hinch Tue Dec 11, 2012 7:24 pm

Well, 'Knocker' Powell will be turning in his grave but I think he looks ok.

As long as his fighting skills are up to par I don't give a toss what he wears.
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Post  Dalelad Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:10 pm

Me neither. Good luck to him.
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Post  cyfrifia Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:56 pm

Guardsman in a turban 220px-Sikh_triditional_turban_Dumalla
It's a pity if he won't be wearing a Sikh battle turban, as that looks about the same size as a bearskin, but I suppose Sikhs can only really wear them when they go into battle? Looks smart. Smile

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Post  Charly Tue Dec 11, 2012 9:41 pm

I dont think I agree with this , what happened to tradition?
I thought a uniform was a uniform
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Post  Jeanie Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:09 pm

Charly wrote:I dont think I agree with this , what happened to tradition?
I thought a uniform was a uniform

I totally agree with you Charly maybe we will see Hinch in his "Trilby " next ? they can't change the rules for one and throw tradition out of the window Rolling Eyes
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Post  cyfrifia Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:11 pm

Guardsman in a turban Jatinderpal-singh-bhullar
Here he is marching about. Yes, it is a bit of a puzzle, a uniform is a uniform, and if it isn't then it isn't. But maybe it's the exception that proves the rule. Traditions can change, and it's a good thing if British military tradition recognises the soldiers and warriors of other nations that have served with and fought alongside British soldiers.

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Post  Dalelad Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:32 pm

Charly wrote:I dont think I agree with this , what happened to tradition?
I thought a uniform was a uniform
What is tradition? Does doing something the same way for a while give it a meaning that isn't actually relevant or useful? He is still wearing a uniform, just slightly different.
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Post  Charly Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:37 pm

Then its not the standard uniform then is it ?

The meaning of the word Uniform;
1. identical or consistent, as from example to example, place to place, or moment to moment:
2. without variations in detail:
3. constant; unvarying; undeviating:
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Post  Jeanie Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:06 pm

Sorry but he joined up to be a Guardsman and knew the Uniform policy is a long service tradition that has always been there ,
So why join up to something knowing he can't wear the traditional uniform ?
No other country in the world would accept this !
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Post  Guest Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:44 pm

Sikhs have worn the traditional ceremonial Busby in the past and this appears to be about endorsing the physical symbols of religious "diversity" : Many practicing Sikhs wear the turban as an emotional religious "visible" commitment.


Some Sikhs compromise, like in the US army, by wearing a thin turban underneath traditional service hats, or caps. Similarly, you’ll see some Sikh sportsmen and athletes wear turbans made of very thin material, known as pakta, that keeps their long hair in a neat bun. In fact the patka is often-usually worn underneath the turban anyway.


The Sikh religion doesn’t stipulate turbans. It stipulates long hair but, over time, wearing the turban has become a religious symbol.


I don't think people in general have a problem with some religious symbols, but it irks when one read, and it wasn't long ago, that a Christian employee was informed that wearing a cross pendant contravened a dress code because it sent out a specific 'faith' message !

Oh heck, better stop immediately. I can feel a smidge of a PC aura lurking Laughing














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Post  Atlas Tue Dec 11, 2012 11:56 pm

Don't agree with it - end of. No
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Post  Dalelad Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:26 am

Why's that then? I can't see how it is a problem at all. He looks slightly different, so what?
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Post  Hinch Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:17 am

Uniforms change all the time. The navy got rid of their bell-bottoms in the 70's and debate has been rumbling on for years about changing their Canadian black-bearskin hats to a synthetic one because of concerns by animal rights groups..

Main thing here is, this chap is prepared to lay his life down for our country in Afghanistan. That's good enough for me. We are a multicultural country, end of and if we want to be inclusive, we need to make sure that everyone is able to participate and observe their own reasonable religious edicts at the same time.

I remember a fuss being made years ago when a Black British guy in the Household Cavalry went on parade with his horse outside St James' Palace. Main objection seemed to be of the "well, it just doesn't look right" variety.

Is the Commander-in-Chief, the Queen making any objections? After all, it is she who he is supposed to be guarding. If it's ok with her then it's fine by me.

For years now, all lamb, poultry and beef served to the armed forces has been halal. Special rules or a commonsense injection of reality?

Nobody complained when Field Marshall Montgomery wore his 'illegal' beret with the two regimental cap-badges.

Special rules were brought into the RAF to allow a badly disabled pilot to fly. He ended up running three squadrons. I am referring to Douglas Badar of course. And then there was that colonel, famous for going into battle on D-Day wearing a bowler and carrying a brolley.

Storm in a bearskin if you ask me.
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Post  johnb Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:29 pm

How much are you going to complain when they die for you?

I am overjoyed he is prepared to serve with our forces and take risks for our freedom he has no need to.
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Post  Hinch Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:52 pm

I never heard any objections when the Brigade of Guards started to admit female soldiers as bandsmen and dressed them up in male guardsmens uniforms.

Seeps to be a lot of fuss about a few feet of coloured cloth or is there some deeper and 'darker' root to the objections I wonder?

If this guy is prepared to get in front of a bullet in the course of his duty, what the hell does it matter what hat he is wearing when he does it?
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Post  Atlas Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:20 am

First and foremost Hinch - he wouldn't be wearing a b*****Bearskin topping if he was in the front line. Hopefully under his helmet he would no doubt have sated his religious beliefs by wearing the thin turban, as I understand they do as a matter of course these days. I'm well aware the Sikhs went into battle in the 2nd lot wearing turbans and mighty fine and brave of them to do so if that was their wish but - this is not the front line, they are not out there hunting the enemy and the Bearskin (be it animal or mineral) is a ceremonial dress uniform. One rule for all or can we next expect to see the 'gay' fraternity (of which there are some in the Guards) turning out in pink-laced bonnets with tassels on them???
It's all about discipline,order and uniformity. As for her majesty. She wouldn't be allowed to comment in public and nor in my opinion would she wish to. It has nothing whatsoever to do with personal wishes. He's in the Armed Forces and as such shouldn't have joined if he wanted to play by this own rules. End of.
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Post  Charly Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:16 am

Well said Atlas!
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Post  cyfrifia Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:10 am

Britain and especially London has changed, very quickly. It is now multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, and multi-religion. That is the situation and the future.

Not to reflect that at all in the image projected in national ceremony at home and abroad would be to present a fossilised relic of the past.

The idea of gay guardsmen allowed to wear pink-laced bonnets with tassels on them is something to consider, it sounds outlandish, and they may not choose to do so, but to many, the idea of gay marriage is equally strange.

As it is, having one Sikh in a turban seems a fair arrangement, the Sikhs are excellent soldiers, famous for standing their ground whatever the circumstances.


Last edited by cyfrifia on Thu Dec 13, 2012 1:27 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post  Dalelad Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:40 am

Atlas wrote: One rule for all or can we next expect to see the 'gay' fraternity (of which there are some in the Guards) turning out in pink-laced bonnets with tassels on them???
Of course there are many gay people who wear such pink laced headgear aren't there? You see them everywhere. It always help reinforce your argument if you can come up with the most ridiculous scenario to back it up, I find...
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Post  Hinch Thu Dec 13, 2012 12:55 pm

Yeah, they're like buses. You don't see one for a while and then three come all at once.

(Ooo... errr... missus!)

I love these Little Englanders. It's like the world stopped on VE Day in 1945.

Hey,DL, I've heard they've got soldiers already wearing multi-coloured skirts on't other side of Hadrian's wall and bonnets as well. Shouldn't be allowed!
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Post  past it Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:58 pm

I think he looks very smart. He is willing to die in the service, uniforms are constantly changing. What's the problem? There are some very right wing members on this forum. As Hinch says" are there some darker forces at work here" I think that's the quote. Apologies Hinch if it is not.

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Post  Charly Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:52 pm

Right wing because they like to see tradition upheld? Yes, ok then.
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Post  johnb Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:18 pm

No, racist because they are unwilling to accept the traditions of ethnicities prepared to die for the crown.

Soldiers from the sub-continent pay the supreme price and have been decorated for acts of the highest valour - fighting for a country not their own, in a fight not their own out of loyalty to a colonising power.
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Post  Dalelad Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:54 pm

Charly wrote:Right wing because they like to see tradition upheld? Yes, ok then.
But you still haven't explained why tradition is so important, Charly. Why does doing something one way for ages cause it to become significant?
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Post  Hinch Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:58 pm

Come off it. Being prepared to stop a bullet simply isn't good enough.

To paraphrase Edith Cavell, the British nurse shot by the Germans in WWI. "Patriotism is not enough; particularly if you are not wearing the right hat!"
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