And the council said let there be light...

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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Guest on Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:12 pm

Chill37 wrote: .....
I'm surprsied we havnt had a Cllr or two singing from the rooftops about how a 'major' occupier is about to buy the two buildings yet.

The 2 buildings are both UK Government Property Assets , (long known to RMBC) so who knows whether they are included, or not, in one of Rochdale centre's Regeneration-Renaissance plans ?

I understand revitalizing "inspirations" have often been sought in overseas research by various Rochdale reps, but I can't muster positive follow-ups, ever since trudging round a deserted, large, newbuild housing market renewal area in Central North, that was reportedly 'inspired' by viewings of hill-dwelling architecture in countries around the Med.

Seems it's been decided we need more taxi ranks, as well as car parks, for the future new centres


Hinch: ~You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me Laughing or, have I started with, yug, the flu Shocked

Chill: just belatedly seen your additions .. have to agree.







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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Poppyanna555 on Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:23 pm

Chill, your descriptions of Rochdale Town Centre echo my sentiments exactly, what a mess! Mad
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Dalelad on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:24 pm

They were talking about the high street on the radio this morning and you'd have thought that everyone who got in touch came from Rochdale. They were echoing everything mentioned on here. Amazingly they came from all over the country and were having the same problems. Surely it can't all be Rochdale council's fault? I'd guess the supermarkets, out of town monster shopping centres, the internet and the global economic collapse, with the resultant pressure on private and public sector jobs may have a bit to do with it.

Chill, you criticise the council for planning the new shops but then praise Bury for building more retail space. You can't have it both ways. A day the the shops an all day family event??! I'd find it hard to spend a day in Oldham, Bury, Ashton or Hebden Bridge as well as Rochdale town centre. The fact is the days of the high street as they were are over. Sad but true.

Also it wasn't the council who promised the arts centre, but Dave Hennigan as far as I can remember.
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Chill37 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:50 pm

Dalelad wrote:They were talking about the high street on the radio this morning and you'd have thought that everyone who got in touch came from Rochdale. They were echoing everything mentioned on here. Amazingly they came from all over the country and were having the same problems. Surely it can't all be Rochdale council's fault? I'd guess the supermarkets, out of town monster shopping centres, the internet and the global economic collapse, with the resultant pressure on private and public sector jobs may have a bit to do with it.

Chill, you criticise the council for planning the new shops but then praise Bury for building more retail space. You can't have it both ways. A day the the shops an all day family event??! I'd find it hard to spend a day in Oldham, Bury, Ashton or Hebden Bridge as well as Rochdale town centre. The fact is the days of the high street as they were are over. Sad but true.

Also it wasn't the council who promised the arts centre, but Dave Hennigan as far as I can remember.

Yes it was Dave who said who worked for the Lib Dems as chief of spin. Oh yes Lib Dems were in power then were they not (before they imploded)? So where is it then?

As for for Bury - at least they have filled their shops with something more than pound and tat and loan shark shops. Plus in compliements their exsiting centre and market (which is thriving and not dying like ours) And it feels safer. As for spending hours there. Sorry you cant spend hours in the towns I mentioned. I can, so can other friends i know.
Start with quailty shopping. Then a nice meal(not fast food) then a film or bowling. You cannot do that in the boundaries of our Town Centre can you? Sandbrook Park is at least a bus ride away. Not walkng distance as Irishman stated on RO once upon a time.
Yes other towns are in trouble. But they seem to be adapting and carrying on. Everything I said about Rochdale is true.

Ok now for Oldham...es they too are in dire straits. But at least they are moving on and adapting. The old Town Hall? Soon to be a cinema - tastefully converted and re-used. Now if that was in Rochdale it would be a new car park with a nice picket fence. The Council there is acknowledging the short falls and I quote

These plans are all about our ambition and determination to deliver a new high-quality environment in Oldham town centre.

“We are looking to go above and beyond the standard finish you get with a new Metrolink line and deliver something extra. These plans will significantly improve a visitor’s first impression of Oldham.”

What do we have? A Council Building and waste land car parks.

I rest my case.

So again in respect to our tat and pound and loan shark shops in Rochdale. Who allows the planning permission- oh yes RMBC. Why cant someone just say no to the applications for once. How many more do we need? So you can expect more crap opening in the new centre. There are no BIG NAMES signed up- that much is clear. So lets move on from that Walter Mitty story.

yes the High Street may be dead, Towns have to change and evovle. But you can really expect influx of new retail shops to happen when you get utter utter garbage promo videos like we got or the obsurd metal boxes as the saviour of our Town. I cannot put into words how i feel. So why do other Towns carry on and dont even look like our Town?


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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  johnb on Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:28 pm

In fairness, planning permission for retail covers everything from a Pound Shop to a high class furniture store.
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Dalelad on Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:43 pm

It would be nice to have bowling and a cinema in the centre, but the fact that it's at Sandbrook Park isn't the end of the world, really, is it? Not when you see how some (many) people in the world have to live. Blimey, we've most of us not got it that bad. I can't get that worked up about some empty shops in the town centre, and a few extra car parks where buildings once stood.
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Guest on Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:12 pm

Illuminations:

Rochdale News | Council Watch | Town Centre Management Company has received over £700,000 from Council in last three years - Rochdale Online


http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/76975/town-centre-management-company-has-received-over-700000-from-council-in-last-three-years. - Well worth the read



It's time the experts took their share of blame for high street woes | UK news | guardian.co.uk
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/the-northerner/2013/jan/11/blogpost-hugh-streets-town-centre-managers



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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Hinch on Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:39 pm

A very senior political figure told me only today that TCM has long regarded RMBC as a big, fat milk cow ready to be milked as and when.

Of course, by RMBC, we mean by implication, the PBCTP. (Poor Bloody Council Tax Payer.)

The council need to wake up very quickly to the dire news rolling in daily about the collapse of once-retailing giants and tell us honestly how they see this affecting the space-filling take-up of Town Centre East.

Have they got a Plan B? They've already had one big supermarket pull out of the project. Surely they are not continuing to claim that all in the garden is rosy?

It seems that so far, all TCM have to do when they embark on their latest ill-fated project is to nip across The Butts to the Town Hall and hold out their begging bowl.

This at a time when the homelessness issue has reached crisis-point.
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Chill37 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:38 pm

johnb wrote:In fairness, planning permission for retail covers everything from a Pound Shop to a high class furniture store.

True. But I can't see a high class furniture shop opening in Rochdale. We do seem to have a high number of fast food shops dont we? One shuts another one opens further down the street. As for the loan shark shops opening up.... Evil or Very Mad

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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Chill37 on Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:46 pm

Dalelad wrote:It would be nice to have bowling and a cinema in the centre, but the fact that it's at Sandbrook Park isn't the end of the world, really, is it? Not when you see how some (many) people in the world have to live. Blimey, we've most of us not got it that bad. I can't get that worked up about some empty shops in the town centre, and a few extra car parks where buildings once stood.

Never said it was the end of the world. I go to the cinema there and Frankie and Bennys as well quite often. My point is that you cant have a full days family entertainment in Rochdale Town Centre. You USED to be able to but the last picture house got shut down to make way for the latest fad at the time - Bingo- and now its a pub Still you be happy as larry when you have 300,000 square feet or so of shiny new shopping centre in our town centre. Well minus the tat shop that will be opened. As Hinch says- RMBC does not have a plan B. As the supermarket, perhaps this was the big name Cllr Farooq referred too pulled out.

Although that in itself is a bit worrying that the flagship store was a supermarket. I can see it now. An Z list star paid thousands to open an Aldi/Lidl/Netto in the new centre. Whilst all the Cllrs jostle for position in the new carpark on the adjacent waste ground to spin the empty shopping centre to high heaven. Is that the best RMBC etc can do to launch a new project. A supermarket!

Speaking of how people live. Makes you feel proud to live in Rochdale when a homeless shelter is shut down and demolished for yet another car park. But its ok as you say, you cant get worked up about more car parks.

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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Dalelad on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:22 pm

No I can't, not about car parks. Which is different to Providence House, really. It may end up as a car park, but I thought that we were discussing the demise of the traditional town centre here, not all the stuff that's gone on between the Sally Army and the council.

Although I don't know many details, I do think though that the Sally Army appear to have got off quite lightly. I can understand the council not wanting to get tied in to a long term contract, what with all the cuts and what have you, but why should that mean that the place should shut? Was the place falling down and urgently needed the work doing? If so why wasn't proper maintenance being carried out over the years to avoid this?
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Chill37 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:33 pm

Dalelad wrote:No I can't, not about car parks. Which is different to Providence House, really. It may end up as a car park, but I thought that we were discussing the demise of the traditional town centre here, not all the stuff that's gone on between the Sally Army and the council.

Although I don't know many details, I do think though that the Sally Army appear to have got off quite lightly. I can understand the council not wanting to get tied in to a long term contract, what with all the cuts and what have you, but why should that mean that the place should shut? Was the place falling down and urgently needed the work doing? If so why wasn't proper maintenance being carried out over the years to avoid this?

I was making reference to the fact that RMBC is clearly operating a scorced earth policey and putting car parks here there and everywhere with no chance of them ever being filled up considering the ones we already have are never filled. Although I could find out more if you like about the reasons why. Yes you are correct the Sally Army does appear at face value to got of lightly. But in retrospect dont you think all £50m could have been better spent than on an edifice representing all thats wrong in RMBC council?


Clearly we have differing views- which is good- you are happy with car parks here there and everywhere. RMBC pushing on wards with a new centre with no hope of ever filling it except with Tat/Pound shops. Where as I, and others it seems, also disagree with the state of our dead town.


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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Charly on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:02 pm

As far as I know the Sally Army was willing to put up £3M but the council would only lease them the site for 12 months which they didnt think was viable..whats the point in spending £3M if the future beyond a year is uncertain?
I'm sure one of the other Chill-Out ers will correct me if I got the wrong end of the stick
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Chill37 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:18 pm

Charly wrote:As far as I know the Sally Army was willing to put up £3M but the council would only lease them the site for 12 months which they didnt think was viable..whats the point in spending £3M if the future beyond a year is uncertain?
I'm sure one of the other Chill-Out ers will correct me if I got the wrong end of the stick

Why would RMBC only allow a lease for 12 months?

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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Charly on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:27 pm

Dont know Chill, (senior memory lapse Sad ) but i'm sure Hinch or Spartacus will remember more details than I do.
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Dalelad on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:45 pm

I'm not happy with car parks all over the place Chill. But neither would I like empty vandalised buildings, which would look worse. Like it or not, the council would struggle to let many of the buildings, due to the severe lack of money around, and I guess the condition of the buildings. They took the decision to bring everyone under one roof, saving on heating, rent and lighting costs and like it or not, the black box is in a poor state. I'm not sure if there is a lot wrong with the decision. Time will tell I guess.
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Heywoodpp on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:12 pm

It wasn't about RMBC leasing the site to the Salvation Army for 12 months. You will recall that RMBC decided to redesign(!) its provision for the homeless in the face of cuts and as part of the new strategy every existing provider of care, and any other interested groups, were asked to bid. The SA put in their bid which would have included investing £3 million in Providence House. This would be a significant investment in homelessness provision in the Borough. Indeed it would be a significant investment of SA funds. However, as good stewards of their funds, the SA obviously needed assurances that RMBC would support Providence House for more than 12 months; otherwise the SA money, much needed elsewhere, would be wasted. RMBC would not commit to supporting Providence House for more than 12 months; therefore the £3 million was lost; RMBC refused to support Providence House even for 12 months; Providence House had to close; I am told on the grapevine that RMBC never really wanted the homeless in a hostel near its newly-rejuvenated Town Centre. So RMBC got its way; they are no longer in the hostel - they are on the streets or sofa-surfing.
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Charly on Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:20 pm

Thanks for that HeywoodPP, I knew someone would correct me.
I couldn't remember all the details...the 12 months stuck in my mind though...age creeping up on me (well, in fact its not creeping any more..more like speeding!) Sad
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Guest on Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:10 pm

Dalelad wrote:I'm not happy with car parks all over the place Chill. But neither would I like empty vandalised buildings, which would look worse. Like it or not, the council would struggle to let many of the buildings, due to the severe lack of money around, and I guess the condition of the buildings. They took the decision to bring everyone under one roof, saving on heating, rent and lighting costs and like it or not, the black box is in a poor state. I'm not sure if there is a lot wrong with the decision. Time will tell I guess.
The figures were 'suspect' at the time of the decision, Dalelad, as they included the building being fully occupied and it now won't be, and relied on around 30 other buildings being sold for what many considered at the time an optimistic value but now with commercial property values having plummeted would be lucky to sell for any price.

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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Chill37 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:18 pm

Dalelad wrote:I'm not happy with car parks all over the place Chill. But neither would I like empty vandalised buildings, which would look worse. Like it or not, the council would struggle to let many of the buildings, due to the severe lack of money around, and I guess the condition of the buildings. They took the decision to bring everyone under one roof, saving on heating, rent and lighting costs and like it or not, the black box is in a poor state. I'm not sure if there is a lot wrong with the decision. Time will tell I guess.

Yes but as J says based on suspect figures. Plus isnt the building now to big for its purpose now with all the job cuts?

You say the council would struggle to let many of the building. Thats my point all along. If they cant lease the building already standing- then how on earth will they let 300,000 more retail space?



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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  johnb on Sat Jan 19, 2013 3:00 pm

I've heard that the staff size was under-estimated and the new building will still be too small.

We shall see.
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Atlas on Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:42 am

They won't. However as everyone on here knows the classic answer is in the small (brain) speak. We are getting ready for the 'upturn'. It's our secret weapon. We will be the only town in the North West to have bang-up-to-date accomodation for the thousands of companies looking for new modern premises. How's that for forward planning. Suspect No clown affraid
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Jeanie on Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:57 pm

If there is all this space free then WHY is Rochdale Borough Housing moving into the Co-Op at Sandbrook Park and not into the new build at Riverside RMBC ???
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Atlas on Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:18 am

Well that's easy isn't it??????? So nobody knows where they are! If you can't find them then you can't complain face en face can you! Not everyone reads this forum jeannie. Tch. Wink
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Re: And the council said let there be light...

Post  Chill37 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:22 pm

Jeanie wrote:If there is all this space free then WHY is Rochdale Borough Housing moving into the Co-Op at Sandbrook Park and not into the new build at Riverside RMBC ???

Very valid point. Why are they?

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