"In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

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"In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:41 pm

"In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1597474_video-tragedy-of-the-hundreds-laid-to-rest-in-paupers-graves


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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Hinch on Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:47 pm

What is the collective noun for six babies in a grave?

Sexnecroplets perhaps?
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Jeanie on Tue Jan 08, 2013 9:23 pm

What the heck is Rochdale becoming ? you can't be ill nor can you die in peace or with dignity have you seen the state of Rochdale Crematoria it's a disgrace Mad
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Hinch on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:27 am

Is this a recent thing Jeanie or was it also going on when your then party was in power?

Just asking as I know you have always been keen on corporate parenting.
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Atlas on Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:58 am

But Hinch - Surely she would not have been aware of it at the time - ?
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Hinch on Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:51 am

Sorry Atlas, I forgot that bit.
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Ann M on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:03 am

Out of order Hinch Surprised

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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:35 am

Whether anyone is or was aware of it or not, is it true babies have been buried six to a grave in Rochdale, or, is this some kind of journalistic misrepresentation of the facts? is it something that happened once or twice, or a regular practice? Depending on how people feel about funerals, it sounds very sad.

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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Hinch on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:48 pm

Ann M wrote:Out of order Hinch Surprised

Out of Order - how? Time and time again we are told that council officers 'get away with it' because councillors fail to hold them to account.

I'm not particularly having a go at Jeanie and I forget which committees she sat on to be honest but there have been several administrations involved in this presumably so it appears to been going on for a while. It seems reasonable to enquire if anyone asked any questions; particularly so when in the wake of the Alder Hey scandal, the retention and disposal of human remains was a burning issue (no pun intended); the disposal of neonates amongst them.

Had I been on the council, I would certainly have wanted to know what the Local Authority policy was with regard to this.

Of course, a lot of it is down to the individual parent. If you suffer the trauma of stillbirth you have the right... and duty to make the arrangements yourself. The council cannot decide for you unless that is what you want.

All I would say is that whether a 'paupers funeral' or nay, the procedure should be carefully explained so that you can make an informed choice.

My friend had a stillbirth 22 years ago and he was buried in a local churchyard in a single grave marked with a headstone which she visits regularly. Another friend's baby was buried in a mass grave with no marker.

To be honest, I don't have a particular view although the Edinburgh case is disturbing where parents were deliberately lied to by council officials. I have no view as to the 'right number' to be interred together. After all, up until fairly recently, many would have ended up in the hospital incinerator.

Locally, we seem to have a practice of single-plot burial at Oldham, 'six in a bed' at Rochdale and four per plot in Manchester.
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Charly on Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:34 pm

Oops, I assumed Anns comment was about the post that said

What is the collective noun for six babies in a grave?

Sexnecroplets perhaps?.
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Hinch on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:06 pm

I forgot to add "I will not make any bad taste comments" to my New Year resolution list Charly.
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Jeanie on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:09 pm

Not replied as I have been sat at Fairfield Hospital all afternoon with a very sick neighbour who was put on the Liverpool Care-pathway to dying without notifying his relatives I found the notes at his bedside table !

Years ago I buried my Son aged 24 at that time it came to light the brains of these young men were removed and stored in jars when I questioned if my Son's brain was removed the letter I received back started with " Dear Mrs Blackthorn" I am happy to say your son-Wayne didn't have his brain removed ??? so there will always be doubt on that one !

Truth of it all for years I have gone on about the state of Rochdale Crematoria along with many Funeral Directors in particular Spotland Bridge Funeral Service and brought it up at many committee meetings when I was in council all parties are to blame for the state it is in as until you need this service same as everything else close your eyes & ears.
On Monday I have to attend there yet again for a very special Auntie who passed away New Years Day but her funeral delayed because of the holidays and backlog of customers !!!
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Hinch on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:18 am

I grant you it is a miserable hole and needs a makeover. As I get older, I find that I am spending far too much time there than I would wish to.

I often take my lunchtime buttie there.

I went to a cremation a couple of years ago in Burnley. What a lovely place. Grounds and gardens beautifully landscaped and the chapel very well maintained and dignified.

I know you're only going up the chimney at the end of the day but even so...

'The quiet place at the end of the world.'
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Spartacus on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:56 pm

It's been a while since I have had to arrange a funeral (thankfully) but the task fell upon me just before Christmas when a relative of my husband's passed away. The chap had been in a care home following a massive series of strokes a few years ago and my husband's mother was his next of kin.

Having only been in receipt of a pittance from his pension as "spending money" (the rest contributing towards his care) the deceased did not have a penny to his name and the burden of paying for the funeral fell on the shoulders of my parents-in-law. I thought there might be a grant they could claim and I was sourly disappointed. No grants unless you are receiving benefits, which they are not. My mother-in-law's old age pension does not count because my father-in-law continues to work.

Thankfully we were recommended an excellent and caring Funeral Directors by Hinch (on another thread) and they were brilliant. Costs approx £2300 for a "basic" funeral: no limousine, meet at the crematorium.

Still, quite a shock for the Parents-in-law (on top of their personal loss) as they weren't expecting to pay for someone else's funeral when they hadn't finished pre-paying for their own!

The whole incident led to me hearing a number of other stories from local people who had found themselves in similar circumstances. One, a young, single mother who had to raise £1000 deposit to pay towards her mother's funeral, following a sudden unexpected death, and who is now paying it off at a ridiculous some per week (before she can afford food & rent) to some shark of a finance company. The other, a family who find themselves facing such hard times in this current economic climate they can't afford to bury their relative a month on despite all clubbing together!

I don't know how much truth there is in it but I was also told that the morgues are practically full as people are unable to bury their dead due to the financial costs. A pauper's funeral only comes into play when someone dies and there are no relatives or someone hasn't got a single penny spare they can beg, steal or borrow.

Terrible state of affairs especially when you are already grieving.




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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:35 pm

Spartacus wrote:Terrible state of affairs especially when you are already grieving.

Yes, it's not until you come across these situations, bereavement, being ill, disabled, put into care, a victim of crime or anti social behavior, or similar things that happen, it's not until it happens to you or someone near you that it becomes apparent how badly our society and system treats people in difficult circumstances, and in circumstances where it's very difficult or impossible for the person it's happening to to protest or get anything done about it.

Examples in the news have been the Savile case, where the extent of what he did turns out to be massive, our society and system did not deal with it at all. The Hillsborough case where families were treated so badly. Those are high profile examples, but the same sort of thing happens all the time on an everyday, smaller scale. The way our society is arranged is pretty bad really, anything good that happens for people in vulnerable and difficult circumstances is usually directly from the kindness and care of ordinary people.

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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Ann M on Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:29 pm

Apologies all round. I had simply no idea that this hador is happening. I am sorry I was totally anawre. This needs bringing up at Council.

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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:57 am

Trees to be chopped down.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/rochdale-trees-face-the-axe-as-cemetery-1310422

It's a pity to lose parkland and trees, is it the only answer?

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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Dalelad on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:32 pm

No, but it's an obvious one. And the council will spend some money on improving the remaining areas of the park. Hopefully that will include the drainage, as half of the park becomes inaccessible once it rains i.e. most of the time
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  johnb on Tue Feb 12, 2013 12:42 pm

That is if we can believe the council's promise on this. After all, it is not as if they have a previous history of lying about the amenity they intend to provide.
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:34 pm

Councils are generally quite keen on chopping down trees, but it's never quite clear what happens to all the logs. Still, someone somewhere must keep nice and cosy with a nice log fire. As for councils keeping promises, it should be understood that 'promises' are 'aspirations'.

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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Poppyanna555 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 3:43 pm

I'll tell you what they do with the logs Cyfrifia, they send a vehicle to pick up half the logs felled and then don't return thus leaving the debris strewn around the place which then make nice little fires for the scum who sit around them keeping warm whilst they indulge in their favourite pastime, smoking drugs.

This is what happened in my area when they felled trees in my local wooded area 12 months ago anyway.
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Feb 12, 2013 4:49 pm

Thankyou Poppyanna. That doesn't quite explain where the good quality logs for burning go, that remains a mystery understood only between the council and the contractor. I imagine these contracts are discussed over a glass of port in a cosy room by people toasting their toes by a log fire.

However, the picture you do describe is, vivid. Crying or Very sad

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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Poppyanna555 on Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:30 pm

Yes Cyfrifia, I was being rather cynical (although truthful). I have no idea where the timber went that they did bother to pick up, to be honest I guess I hadn't really thought about it. Question
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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:52 pm

A proper old fashioned log fire ( or wood and coal), is something I've missed this winter, so, my mind does tend to follow the logs. pirat

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Re: "In Rochdale, babies are buried six to a grave."

Post  Jeanie on Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:03 pm

Today I attended another funeral of a close neighbour at Rochdale Crem the 4th funeral since January!

Please get a move on Rochdale this crematoria is so out-dated cold and un-welcoming at least change the awful curtains surly you can afford that whilst all the building work is going on which looks like it is going to be quite a while yet ?
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