Bedroom Tax ?

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Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Jeanie on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:55 pm

Why has this ridiculous tax only been aimed at Council House Tenants ?
When someone moves into a house they make it there own regardless of how they pay the rent how can anyone justify that once your children grow up or whatever other circumstances in your life someone can 30 -40 even 50 years later tell you that either move or you will be charged more for an empty room this is just absolutely disgraceful No
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Atlas on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:40 am

Because social housing, at its major inception after the war, was never meant as a home for life. The object was to rehouse the bombed out and at the same time provide more housing in order to remove the thousands of homes which at that time were considered unfit for habitation. Tenants were expected to move onwards and upwards by finding better accommodation for rent or by buying their own homes in due course. The expectation jeanie of a home for life would have necessitated a social programme which would by its very nature have to be ongoing ad infinitum. Such was never envisaged. Council tenancy agreements have clauses in them that often bear no resemblance to that of the private sector rentals. The government would have to legislate to change the private rental sector requirements in order to make both the same. This will not happen.
I understand perfectly your reasoning behind your question and the unfortunate consequences to many who have made their homes for 'life' in social housing. This however doesn't change the facts or the ramifications for them.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  southernbelle on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:26 pm

Sorry Jeanie, dont agree. Why should a person live alone in council house with 3 empty bedrooms while a family of 4 lives in a b and b? It is housing intended for social help, not as a gravy train. If the single person wants an enormous property, let them find private rentyed accomadation and pay the going rate. They would pretty soon decide 1 bed was enough then.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  johnb on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:42 pm

Agreed SB; at the end of the day social housing is subsidised 'for public good'.

Private housing is not.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Jeanie on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:00 pm

My concern is that no were in the tenancy agreement for tenants years ago does it state that one day they will have to move as their children grow up .

So yes by all means put it in a signed agreement now but don't force long standing tenants out of their homes and tell me just were do they go because there isn't sufficient bungalows or flats available now?
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  southernbelle on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:16 pm

Yes, change the tenancy agreement if it hasnt already been done. If there is a more suitable accomadation available and they wont move, charge them the extra. Liase with local landlords to have their properties on long leases to the council (my brother does it very sucessfully in north london) and make use of empty properties that are done up by the landlords. However it is done, the underoccupancy must be addressed.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Charly on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:46 pm

Long standing council tenants have probably paid for the houses they've lived in anyway.
The houses on my street cost more than double in rent than I pay in mortgage.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Hinch on Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:28 pm

Jeanie wrote:My concern is that no were in the tenancy agreement for tenants years ago does it state that one day they will have to move as their children grow up .

So yes by all means put it in a signed agreement now but don't force long standing tenants out of their homes and tell me just were do they go because there isn't sufficient bungalows or flats available now?

So, a couple occupying a 3 bedroomed house who are in their early 40s whose kids have left home would be allowed to stay on there until they were 70 or 80?

That is not a good use of social housing in a town that has seen homelessness grow by 200% in a year.

Even if you changed tenancy agreements now, it could be another 40 years before this issue was fully resolved.

As to the merits of tenancy versus ownership. As I eye my leaky roof, dodgy double glazing, wonky boiler, rotting doorframe and kitchen that needs urgently replastering, I would love a landlord with the legal obligation to repair, replace and restore.

Unfortunately I don't have this luxury as an owner.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Charly on Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:41 pm

Look at this this way Hinch, nobody can turf you and Mrs H out and make you live in a tidgy one bedroomed flat, you have the luxury of being able to rattle around your mansion...you and Mrs H could be as much as 3 floors away from each other if you've had a row Laughing that wouldn't be possible in a one bedroom flat now would it!
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Poppyanna555 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:29 pm

Before anyone starts pushing anybody into rented accommodation, they would do well to address the situation we have with dubious landlords! I'm lucky, I own my own house, but I wouldn't wish anyone to take up residence in the many properties around me 'up for rent'.

Three properties near me were let without a functioning central heating boiler. One was let with a smashed window covered with insulation board that duly all but disintegrated in the wet weather (a woman and 3 small children, including a baby) were living in this in the height of winter last year.

Two are currently up for let near me, one has a smashed bedroom window and the other has two broken windows and no.....they are not always repaired before the tenant moves in, the one with the smashed bedroom window housed a woman and 3 small boys until they moved out and now the 'For Let' sign is back up.

These landlords have no interest whatsoever in the well-being/safety of their tenants, as long as they get their rent (often funded by you and I) they're happy! Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  past it on Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:19 pm

Many council house tenants have made a packet out of the right to buy legislation brought in under Margaret Thatcher.
I can well understand the reluctance to have to quit a house because it is bigger than the incumbent tenant needs but as many contributors have pointed out council houses were never intended to be permanent tenancies.
I am sure someone will shortly point out that as the law stands a sixteen year old can be given a council property and if they are and remain unemployed can expect to live in it virtually rent free and completely maintained for the rest of their lives.

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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Charly on Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:28 pm

People under (is it 30 or 35?) can only get housing benefit equal to what it would cost for one room in a shared house any shortfall between the two amounts is to be made up by themselves


I've just searched for the info and the age is 35.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  keithatrochdale on Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:57 pm

past it wrote: Many council house tenants have made a packet out of the right to buy legislation brought in under Margaret Thatcher.
I can well understand the reluctance to have to quit a house because it is bigger than the incumbent tenant needs but as many contributors have pointed out council houses were never intended to be permanent tenancies.
I am sure someone will shortly point out that as the law stands a sixteen year old can be given a council property and if they are and remain unemployed can expect to live in it virtually rent free and completely maintained for the rest of their lives.

Well why didn't the tenancy agreement lay out exactly how long the tenancy was for?

Why wasn't the money from the sale of property used to build more stock?

How can you criticise individuals for using the letter of the law to better themselves, when RMBC gets up to similar/worse tricks with community tax increases?

Both are legal, unless the law is changed.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Jeanie on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:41 pm

past it wrote: Many council house tenants have made a packet out of the right to buy legislation brought in under Margaret Thatcher.
I can well understand the reluctance to have to quit a house because it is bigger than the incumbent tenant needs but as many contributors have pointed out council houses were never intended to be permanent tenancies.
I am sure someone will shortly point out that as the law stands a sixteen year old can be given a council property and if they are and remain unemployed can expect to live in it virtually rent free and completely maintained for the rest of their lives.

I really find your comment offensive past it I have lived in this house for 47 years we have bought and paid for it yes it is ex council on a council estate and I love it , no-one told us 47 years ago that this was temporary accommodation nothing on my rent agreement way back then stated that I couldn't make this my home for life or for as long as I chose to live here.I haven't as you say "made a packet" in fact the rent I paid up until being able to buy it more than doubled my mortgage and the rent they pay now is over £91 per week
I have neighbours who have lived here longer than us and still pay rent in their 80's looked after the property as if it was their own (which in my view it is)
So were do you think my elderly neighbours should go past it ? sorry but our care & nursing homes are full and the council are withdrawing funds to many of them so they are already struggling !
Come back into the real world and look what a mess we have been left with ! It is time to close the doors to immigrants and look after our own who are homeless and struggling yet we still sent thousands for aid abroad we have more than enough sad & genuine people here who are desperate and in need of help,
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Charly on Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:47 pm

Well said Jeanie.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Hinch on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:17 pm

Rubbish! Council houses were always allocated on number of members of family needing accommodation. Surely when that need changes, consideration needs to be given to matching actual need to resources available.

Anything other than this is at best inefficient or at best, pure greed and selfishness.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Charly on Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:49 pm

Hinch wrote:Rubbish! Council houses were always allocated on number of members of family needing accommodation. Surely when that need changes, consideration needs to be given to matching actual need to resources available.

Anything other than this is at best inefficient or at best, pure greed and selfishness.

Well, I guess I'm with Jeanie in being greedy and selfish as I too bought my council property after being a tenant (and paying rent) for close on 40 years, even dragging a mortgage out over the longest period of 25 years it would have been paid for twice with what was paid in rent.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  past it on Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:31 am

Jeanie wrote:
past it wrote: Many council house tenants have made a packet out of the right to buy legislation brought in under Margaret Thatcher.
I can well understand the reluctance to have to quit a house because it is bigger than the incumbent tenant needs but as many contributors have pointed out council houses were never intended to be permanent tenancies.
I am sure someone will shortly point out that as the law stands a sixteen year old can be given a council property and if they are and remain unemployed can expect to live in it virtually rent free and completely maintained for the rest of their lives.

I really find your comment offensive past it I have lived in this house for 47 years we have bought and paid for it yes it is ex council on a council estate and I love it , no-one told us 47 years ago that this was temporary accommodation nothing on my rent agreement way back then stated that I couldn't make this my home for life or for as long as I chose to live here.I haven't as you say "made a packet" in fact the rent I paid up until being able to buy it more than doubled my mortgage and the rent they pay now is over £91 per week
I have neighbours who have lived here longer than us and still pay rent in their 80's looked after the property as if it was their own (which in my view it is)
So were do you think my elderly neighbours should go past it ? sorry but our care & nursing homes are full and the council are withdrawing funds to many of them so they are already struggling !
Come back into the real world and look what a mess we have been left with ! It is time to close the doors to immigrants and look after our own who are homeless and struggling yet we still sent thousands for aid abroad we have more than enough sad & genuine people here who are desperate and in need of help,

I don't know why you mention immigrants, I have not. Aid abroad? what has that got to do with it?

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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Hinch on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:31 am

Although I am totally opposed to the sale of social housing, I don't blame any tenants who exercise the right to buy, given the generous incentives dangled in front of them. People in this position are neither greedy or selfish.

However, those who choose to stay as tenants should accept that as their actual; rather than perceived needs change over time, it seems both reasonable and desirable that social living space is allocated to those who fit the original, points-based criteria to occupy the property.

I know a Rochdale woman who has had 10 children who occupies a five bedroomed social house. Are we seriously proposing that she is allowed to retain this long after her kids fly the roost?

As for immigrants, I'm not sure why this was brought into the equation although it seems that any pretext is sufficient to portray them as being part of various negative social contexts.

I have worked shoulder to shoulder with many immigrants in the NHS for many years. Shock, horror... some of them lived in social housing!
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Dalelad on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:47 am

I think that Jeanie is getting her cv ready for a job on the Daily Mail. Whatever the topic, blame the foreigners!

Regardless of how long someone rents a house, the simple fact of the matter is that until they buy it, it's not theirs. It doesn't matter if the rent paid is more or less than a mortgage. The house belongs to someone else.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:24 am

To provide decent, affordable housing for everyone would require a massive house building program. Having a safe, pleasant and secure home is the starting point for people to have a proper life. Many people now don't have that or even the hope of it, they have to live where they can, often in circumstances they would not choose, not where they would like to be.

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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Hinch on Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:46 am

Dalelad wrote:I think that Jeanie is getting her cv ready for a job on the Daily Mail. Whatever the topic, blame the foreigners!

Regardless of how long someone rents a house, the simple fact of the matter is that until they buy it, it's not theirs. It doesn't matter if the rent paid is more or less than a mortgage. The house belongs to someone else.

I'm surprised the immigrants haven't been blamed yet for the heavy snowfall or the rainy summer.

Spot on re the patently obvious fact that rented homes belong to A.N. Other. I rented until I was 42 via the NHS, private landlords and RBH. I was never under the illusion that it was mine in perpetuity. I found the convenience of having someone else responsible for repairs etc quite appealing.

I was never tempted to exercise my right to buy as I am morally opposed to it though I don't blame anyone who does.

It sickened me how many former council houses are now in the hands of unregulated private landlords.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Jeanie on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:38 pm

http://www.channel4.com/news/the-bedroom-tax-the-key-questions

Is it fair ?


Last edited by Jeanie on Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added comment)
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Charly on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:21 pm

Reading that article I dont think it fair you have to pay if you are willing to downsize but have to wait up to 8 years to be moved
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:26 pm

According to those rules, the bedroom tax isn't fair on some people in some circumstances. Taking in a lodger may be the practical solution. Immigrant workers might need rooms to rent near where they find work, and will pick up English language quicker in a family environment.

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