Bedroom Tax ?

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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  keithatrochdale on Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:55 pm

This is so wrong, it is just one more government plan to screw every last penny out the poor tenants.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:45 am

Quite a few people have taken to living in converted vans and canal boats, some of them are nice little mobile homes. That 'traveller' lifestyle really expanded when Mrs. Thatcher brought in the poll tax. Travellers are a very mixed bunch. Some with dubious lifestyles, others very decent people, and a mix of ages

In conversations with some of them, the idea they tell is that once you either own or rent a house, 'they' have you by the short and curlies, and will always be coming out with different ways to extract money. Some people see it as a trap they want to escape from.




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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  southernbelle on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:03 pm

Charly wrote:Reading that article I dont think it fair you have to pay if you are willing to downsize but have to wait up to 8 years to be moved

I agree with that. But if you are offered SUITABLE accomodation and refuse, then the charge should be incurred.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  keithatrochdale on Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:07 pm

southernbelle wrote:

I agree with that. But if you are offered SUITABLE accomodation and refuse, then the charge should be incurred.

It maybe depends what is considered SUITABLE.

I am sure you would not want to move into certain areas, but the accommodation offered might meet your needs; then what do you do?
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  teamplayer2 on Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:37 pm

Go back a couple of hundred years some people had to brick up windows because of a window tax. The more windows you have the more tax you paid.

Funny how our leaders never change over the centuries trying to take money out of the honest people and hard working people of this country.

How to become a leader of a country? Just lack morals and bash the the hard working and the unfortunate of the country.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Jeanie on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:56 pm

keithatrochdale wrote:
southernbelle wrote:

I agree with that. But if you are offered SUITABLE accomodation and refuse, then the charge should be incurred.

It maybe depends what is considered SUITABLE.

I am sure you would not want to move into certain areas, but the accommodation offered might meet your needs; then what do you do?

I totally agree with you Keith.

By all means bring it in for new tenants but don't push it on long term existing ones Mad
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Hinch on Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:42 am

So the woman I mentioned should be allowed to keep her 5 bedroom house when her kids have all left then Jeanie?

What an imaginative use of scarce resources.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  southernbelle on Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:59 am

I am sure those in Jeanies camp think it better for the council to spend money building or adapting houses to accomodate those with larger families. I personally dont see that as top priority for my council tax. If you cant afford to properly support (incl house) a large family, then you should stick to what you can afford. Before I get shouted out, I know that unfortuanate circumstances can hit anyone, but you all know what sort of situations I am talking about.

Possibly all social housing should have a regular 5yr review, and a contract which reflects the problem of over occupancy. There may other factors to include such as being a good neighbour, taking care of the property in a reasonable way, not making changes to it, subletting etc.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:03 am


Developers plans to house single people in converted garages might help. Pensioners are exempt from the bedroom tax, but clapped out and disabled middle aged people can be moved out into garages to make way for new people with larger families to have their houses.

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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  southernbelle on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:27 am

brilliant idea, i have a shed that could used.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:17 am


Should the people that live in this house be charged extra for using the aeroplane that crashed into it as a spare bedroom?

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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Charly on Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:08 pm

I was talking to a young man yesterday who will most likely become homeless when the bedroom tax comes in, he has taken over his dads tenancy of a 2 bed flat and although he has 3 children who he has 50/50 care of with his ex partner he will have to give the flat up as he cannot afford the extra rent he will be charged.
That means he will no longer have a place for his children to sleep when he has custody 3 days one week and 4 days the next.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  past it on Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:22 pm

Charly wrote:I was talking to a young man yesterday who will most likely become homeless when the bedroom tax comes in, he has taken over his dads tenancy of a 2 bed flat and although he has 3 children who he has 50/50 care of with his ex partner he will have to give the flat up as he cannot afford the extra rent he will be charged.
That means he will no longer have a place for his children to sleep when he has custody 3 days one week and 4 days the next.


I fear there may well always be cases like that and some will suffer as a result. The point well made by Hinch is that there are single tenants with three to five bedrooom houses. Where is the fairness there? Tenants used to be able to swap houses, is that still possible?

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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Charly on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:10 pm

Yes, I believe the exchange system is still possible. This young mans case in a 2 bedroom flat doesnt seem fair but then if you think about the single people in a 3 bed property maybe they are in the same position with overnight access to their children, I think cases should be taken on merit.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:34 pm

Cases should be judged according to circumstances, which can be complicated. How small does a so called bedroom have to be before it can arguably be called a boxroom or a walk-in wardrobe? Is there a British standard measurement?

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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Charly on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:43 pm

My 3rd bedroom is just under 9 foot x 7 foot with a box covering the slope of the stairs taking up a quarter of it ...until I had it remodelled and a built in bed put in.
I think its a cheek to call it a bedroom Laughing
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:18 pm

Foster children do not count as human beings under the bedroom tax rules.

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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Jeanie on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:09 pm

http://www.itv.com/news/2013-02-01/tenants-hit-by-bedroom-tax-tell-of-financial-misery/

Is this fair ??? no it is heartbreaking Mad


Last edited by Jeanie on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:19 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added comment)
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  johnb on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:41 pm

The concept is not wrong, but some of the boundaries are mis-drawn.

There is better chance of getting these injustices rectified if the obvious injustices of people with redundant rooms are also accepted.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Atlas on Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:19 am

Jeanie wrote:Why has this ridiculous tax only been aimed at Council House Tenants ?
When someone moves into a house they make it there own regardless of how they pay the rent how can anyone justify that once your children grow up or whatever other circumstances in your life someone can 30 -40 even 50 years later tell you that either move or you will be charged more for an empty room this is just absolutely disgraceful No


I would add in addition to my previous comments jeanie that in one's latter stages and after the squibs have 'flown the nest' that many in the private sector 'downsize' in order to save costs/accrue values/make things easier and more manageable. The only difference being that those so fortunate have a choice whilst those not so fortunate and at the behest of a landlord don't. It is life jeanie. We can't protect everyone whilst so many more have a greater need. No one is suggesting throwing grandma out in to the street. Simply that she has some upheaval to help others not so fortunate. What are we supposed to do otherwise????
Please don't say build more houses. We have been there before and no-one disagrees. However - we do have to take things as they are at the present time and sharing out is better than nothing.
Unless of course - you know different - Wink
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:04 am

What this boils down to is the government cutting housing benefit, and trying to find an arguably fair way of doing it. It is arguable though, yet another potentially socially disruptive and alienating thing to cope with. The UK already has crowded housing conditions, problem estates and high population densities. It sounds difficult to administer fairly, and the legalities rather iffy.

What we should have aimed at in long term housing policy was settled neighborhoods with well maintained houses and gardens, a sense of security, space, and well being. What we get with this bedroom tax is more 'churn' of tenants, disruption, a sense of unfairness, people having to live where they don't want to be, not knowing how long they can stay. Because for so long we haven't had a workable housing policy, with a 'musical chairs' boom-and-bust housing market, house building on flood plain and on contaminated land, ever smaller and fewer rooms in new build houses, and now we cannot afford to address those problems, or properly house such a high population.

Trying to kid tenants that these failures of successive governments is in some way their own fault for growing old, becoming disabled or bereaved, or having other 'unsuitable' circumstances is just that, political kiddology. Smile

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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Hinch on Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:15 am

johnb wrote:The concept is not wrong, but some of the boundaries are mis-drawn.

There is better chance of getting these injustices rectified if the obvious injustices of people with redundant rooms are also accepted.

Spot on. The policy on its own seems practical and sensible but needs an injection of commonsense and compassion. Charly's point re what actually constitutes a bedroom is also a good one. A large cupboard is not a bedroom.

Jeanie only seems to be stopping just short of demanding the right for tenants to bequeath their rented property in their wills!

Strange stance for a Tory. Is this official Conservative policy?
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Hinch on Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:44 pm

Just driven over to Rochdale. Evidently, there is another 5-bedroomed rented property on the same street as the first lady I mentioned. This one is occupied by two couples sleeping in two rooms.

Evidently someone has been down from the Council or DWP earlier this week explaining the new rules.

They are not happy bunnies.

I gather that the 'this is our family home' argument buttered no parsnips with the officials.

They do have a choice; pay up or move to a 2-3 bed-roomed house.

I gather that the younger couple tried the 'we are thinking of starting a family' tack but were told that as and when any sprogletts arrived, their needs would be reassessed.
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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:01 pm

Will neighbors there be pleased when two or three new families with assorted children, lodgers, cats dogs and cars move in, or, might they think fondly of the good old days when it was under-occupied, quiet, and parsnips were unbuttered?

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Re: Bedroom Tax ?

Post  Atlas on Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:13 am

cyfrifia wrote:What this boils down to is the government cutting housing benefit, and trying to find an arguably fair way of doing it. It is arguable though, yet another potentially socially disruptive and alienating thing to cope with. The UK already has crowded housing conditions, problem estates and high population densities. It sounds difficult to administer fairly, and the legalities rather iffy.

What we should have aimed at in long term housing policy was settled neighborhoods with well maintained houses and gardens, a sense of security, space, and well being. What we get with this bedroom tax is more 'churn' of tenants, disruption, a sense of unfairness, people having to live where they don't want to be, not knowing how long they can stay. Because for so long we haven't had a workable housing policy, with a 'musical chairs' boom-and-bust housing market, house building on flood plain and on contaminated land, ever smaller and fewer rooms in new build houses, and now we cannot afford to address those problems, or properly house such a high population.

Trying to kid tenants that these failures of successive governments is in some way their own fault for growing old, becoming disabled or bereaved, or having other 'unsuitable' circumstances is just that, political kiddology. Smile



I couldn't agree more. Well put. However. We vote in these incompetents to look after our general well-being. The fact we don't get the right calibre of people or that the political party system stands in the way of 'doing the right thing' doesn't change the facts as they now stand. Sharing - however it is done - will become increasingly necessary if the housing problems are not very soon addressed. Meanwhile their will 'again' be winners and losers in the musical house game as the band plays on. Very sad. Sad
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