Back to basic care.....about time.

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Back to basic care.....about time.

Post  southernbelle on Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:23 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21922998

Its what I learnt, and Hinch too I bet. Knowledge and skill and filling forms are important, but the basic care has got forgotten somewhere.
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Re: Back to basic care.....about time.

Post  Charly on Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:11 am

Will these potential nurses be expected to do the year on the ward before Uni as unpaid members of staff?
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Re: Back to basic care.....about time.

Post  Voddie on Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:15 am

I used to do Bank work while I was doing my training and it not only gave me valuble hands on experinece, but also an insight that is not always given to student nurses.
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Re: Back to basic care.....about time.

Post  Charly on Tue Mar 26, 2013 11:34 am

I've seen the workload put on student nurses at close quarters so I know they do a full days work on the wards and still have the studying to fit in.

(mother of neo-natal ICU nurse and potential student midwife)
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Re: Back to basic care.....about time.

Post  Voddie on Tue Mar 26, 2013 12:01 pm

I was part of the nursing 2000 intake and we very rarely looked after patients, although we were very proficient at filling in paperwork.

Most of my hands on experience was gained on Bank, but then again I always learned more by getting stuck in.
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Re: Back to basic care.....about time.

Post  Charly on Tue Mar 26, 2013 2:19 pm

Things have changed since then Voddie, my daughters experience (graduated from Salford about 18 months ago) is that she did placements for months at a time and was fully expected to look after patients
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Re: Back to basic care.....about time.

Post  nickih on Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:46 pm

Charly wrote:Things have changed since then Voddie, my daughters experience (graduated from Salford about 18 months ago) is that she did placements for months at a time and was fully expected to look after patients

Dependant on the placement, though Charly - a student nurse out with us school nurses wont do any hands on care.
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Re: Back to basic care.....about time.

Post  teamplayer2 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:12 pm

A lot of nurses do want to give the care, but lack of staff and all the extra paperwork to do is stopping them doing this.

It is this and previous governments who created the problems and with further cutbacks then we can all see this getting worse. The problem is a lot of these policy makers have never worked in an hospital or they have never seen what the job is all about. Or if they have gone to look at hospitals they may just be walking round with blindfolds or cover their ears with their hands instead of listening to the people who do the job of nursing. Also they do not listen to the patients who have had to complain.

Just how many policy makers have really worked in an hospital or been at the front of nursing? Just how many are more qualified as accountants?
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Re: Back to basic care.....about time.

Post  Hinch on Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:16 pm

I agree Nicki; depends very much on the placement and the culture of the ward or department concerned. I will write more on this later. A lot of good stuff with the old, hospital-based training but some stuff not so good.

As to students having to do a year as care assistants pre-training, a sad reflection on just how far things have appear to have fallen. Nurse training should cover ALL aspects of care starting with the basic but oh so essential stuff; hygiene, nutrition, dignity, communication etc.

Without this, all else falls flat on its gluteus maximus.
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Re: Back to basic care.....about time.

Post  Charly on Tue Mar 26, 2013 7:32 pm

nickih wrote:
Dependant on the placement, though Charly - a student nurse out with us school nurses wont do any hands on care.

I was meaning on the hospital wards which is what it seems to be all about.
I was not aware that school nurses actually did 'hands on' care since nitty nora was stopped
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Re: Back to basic care.....about time.

Post  teamplayer2 on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:12 pm

It is quite simple Hinch is it not! Those who are qualified nurses and I mean QUALIFIED like your good self are the very people who should have more say in the delivery of training and not some pen pusher and a qualified accountant who look more at figures than the training of nurses.

It is those that are qualified and working in the front line who should be asked what is needed. I know it is qualified nurses who deliver training and do the teaching but they seem to be tied up depending on cost etc and by someone who works in an office and never seen on the floor where the real work is done by the qualified nursing staff.

For some reasons known to themselves the managers seem to want to tie the trained nurses up in extra and repeated paperwork all the time than letting them get on with the job they want and love to do in most cases.
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Re: Back to basic care.....about time.

Post  Hinch on Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:51 pm

Following on from SB's initial post:

Easy to look back with rose-tinted glasses to a past that was never really there and I am NOT proposing a complete return to the old-style, School of Nursing-type training. In those days, although we received a salary, there was a lot of exploitation and bullying, depending on where you were placed. There was often little support from the School whilst you were out on placement and basically, if your face fitted, you got on, if it didn't your life could be made hell.

As a male nurse, you were largely judged by whether or not Sister liked male nurses. If she didn't, you's spend all your shift bathing and shaving patients like a glorified lavatory attendant. If she did, you shared a cooked breakfast and hot coffee in her office whilst the female students were out on the ward dealing with the nasty brown stuff. (Good old Sister Marriot from Ward E3!)

Much of it was cheap labour with students doing all the donkey work, largely unsupervised and by your third year you were in charge of night shifts and occasional evening shifts.

However, I loved my training and got on well. Took and passed my State Finals on my 29th birthday. However, a 12-week placement on an unpopular ward lost us far too many potentially good nurses. So many left in tears, never to return.

HOWEVER...

In Introductory Course, before they even let us near a patient, we learned all about nutrition, hygiene, bedmaking, lifting and handling, how to do 'obs', injections, sterile procedures and all the rest. The training was thorough and we were left in no uncertain doubt that the basics came first.

When you got onto the wards, you took your Schedule Book in which you had to be signed off as competent in everything from handing out urinals to managing chest-drains and changing complex dressings. You were assessed at every turn.

What seems to be being said now by HMG is that the basic nursing skills are to be covered separately in a 1 year pre-training role as a Care Assistant. This is bad and will further confirm the division between the caring, practical nurse and the more academically-minded professional nurse who can expain what sub-acute bacterial endocarditis is but has forgotton the importance of ensuring that patients are clean, pain-free and well-hydrated.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all post-Project 2000 nurses are numties. Many of them are excellent but there are some significant shortfalls in the training with seemingly little emphasis placed on basic, practical care and far more onthe passing of examinations. For a long time now, newly-qualified nurses have needed a L-O-N-G time to acclimatise to a ward environment.

Something in-between is needed and we have been pointing it out to them for ages.


Last edited by Hinch on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Back to basic care.....about time.

Post  nickih on Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:07 pm

Charly wrote:
nickih wrote:
Dependant on the placement, though Charly - a student nurse out with us school nurses wont do any hands on care.

I was meaning on the hospital wards which is what it seems to be all about.
I was not aware that school nurses actually did 'hands on' care since nitty nora was stopped

That was my point - some placements don't have hands on care. The only clinical stuff school nurses do i immunisations in school. A student can spend weeks with us but do no hands on stuff. He or she will arrange spoke placements whilst out with us that might or might not include some hands on stuff.
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