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johnb
cyfrifia
southernbelle
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Why should they be given visas?
southernbelle Wed May 22, 2013 9:39 am
southernbelle- Space Cadet
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Re: Why should they be given visas?
cyfrifia Wed May 22, 2013 10:57 am
As soon as the UK decided to send troops to fight in Afghanistan, this consequence was pretty much inevitable, wasn't it?
cyfrifia- Time Lord
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Re: Why should they be given visas?
johnb Wed May 22, 2013 6:50 pm
They've put their lives on the line by working with the occupying force. Why should they NOT be given visas?
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Re: Why should they be given visas?
southernbelle Wed May 22, 2013 6:57 pm
Because it opens yet another door which may become a floodgate? We need to be slowing down the incoming traffic, not opening another lane.
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Re: Why should they be given visas?
Hinch Wed May 22, 2013 6:58 pm
Totally agree JB. Interpreters working with the Army have been killed when we went home and left them in the lurch.
What price valour, Johnny Foreigner or not.
These people have risked their lives daily to help our servicemen and women. We can't just turn our backs on them when we have finished with them.
Just thought, perhaps some other way, less contentious could be found to express our greatful thanks? When they are assassinated, perhaps a floral tribute on behalf of HMG could be sent expressing the Nation's gratitude?
I know we live in troubled economic times but it might be a nice gesture.
What price valour, Johnny Foreigner or not.
These people have risked their lives daily to help our servicemen and women. We can't just turn our backs on them when we have finished with them.
Just thought, perhaps some other way, less contentious could be found to express our greatful thanks? When they are assassinated, perhaps a floral tribute on behalf of HMG could be sent expressing the Nation's gratitude?
I know we live in troubled economic times but it might be a nice gesture.
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Location : Stradhoughton
Re: Why should they be given visas?
Poppyanna555 Wed May 22, 2013 8:06 pm
I admit to knowing nothing in politics but, in this instance, I feel that we are right to allow these interpreters into our country. I believe that they would otherwise be at great risk left in their own country of being treated as traitors.
Having said that, the gates should NOT be open to all and sundry (although obviously, their families are going to follow) but after that, the gates should be firmly bolted!
Having said that, the gates should NOT be open to all and sundry (although obviously, their families are going to follow) but after that, the gates should be firmly bolted!
Poppyanna555- Officer of the Watch
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Re: Why should they be given visas?
Hinch Wed May 22, 2013 8:17 pm
Agree Poppy. I would restrict those on visas to immediate family.
Our Army depends for its very safety and survival from interpreters and other people with strong local knowledge and contacts. They help keep our troops safe; often at great personal risk.
Not all of them will want to come but they should have the opportunity where their lives and those of their families are in danger.
Our Army depends for its very safety and survival from interpreters and other people with strong local knowledge and contacts. They help keep our troops safe; often at great personal risk.
Not all of them will want to come but they should have the opportunity where their lives and those of their families are in danger.
Hinch- Spaceship Commander
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Location : Stradhoughton
Re: Why should they be given visas?
Hinch Wed May 22, 2013 8:26 pm
Even Kipling had some appreciation of those locals who supported our forces at grave personal risk:-
You may talk o' gin and beer
When you're quartered safe out 'ere,
An' you're sent to penny-fights an' Aldershot it;
But when it comes to slaughter
You will do your work on water,
An' you'll lick the bloomin' boots of 'im that's got it.
Now in Injia's sunny clime,
Where I used to spend my time
A-servin' of 'Er Majesty the Queen,
Of all them blackfaced crew
The finest man I knew
Was our regimental bhisti, Gunga Din.
He was "Din! Din! Din!
"You limpin' lump o' brick-dust, Gunga Din!
"Hi! Slippy hitherao!
"Water, get it! Panee lao
"You squidgy-nosed old idol, Gunga Din."
The uniform 'e wore
Was nothin' much before,
An' rather less than 'arf o' that be'ind,
For a piece o' twisty rag
An' a goatskin water-bag
Was all the field-equipment 'e could find.
When the sweatin' troop-train lay
In a sidin' through the day,
Where the 'eat would make your bloomin' eyebrows crawl,
We shouted " Harry By!"
Till our throats were bricky-dry,
Then we wopped 'im 'cause 'e couldn't serve us all.
It was "Din! Din! Din!
"You 'eathen, where the mischief 'ave you been?
"You put some juldee in it
"Or I'll marrow you this minute
"If you don't fill up my helmet, Gunga Din!"
'E would dot an' carry one
Till the longest day was done;
An' 'e didn't seem to know the use o' fear.
If we charged or broke or cut,
You could bet your bloomin' nut,
'E'd be waitin' fifty paces right flank rear.
With 'is mussick' on 'is back,
'E would skip with our attack,
An' watch us till the bugles made "Retire,"
An' for all 'is dirty 'ide
'E was white, clear white, inside
When 'e went to tend the wounded under fire!
It was "Din! Din! Din!"
With the bullets kickin' dust-spots on the green
When the cartridges ran out,
You could hear the front-ranks shout,
"Hi! ammunition-mules an' Gunga Din!"
I sha'n't forgit the night
When I dropped be'ind the fight
With a bullet where my belt-plate should 'a' been.
I was chokin' mad with thirst,
An' the man that spied me first
Was our good old grinnin', gruntin' Gunga Din.
'E lifted up my 'ead,
An' he plugged me where I bled, An' 'e guv me 'arf-a-pint o' water green.
It was crawlin' and it stunk,
But of all the drinks I've drunk,
I'm gratefullest to one from Gunga Din.
It was "Din! Din! Din!
"'Ere's a beggar with a bullet through 'is spleen"
"'E's chawin' up the ground,
"An' 'e's kickin' all around:
"For Gawd's sake git the water, Gunga Din!
'E carried me away
To where a dooli lay,
An' a bullet come an' drilled the beggar clean.
'E put me safe inside,
An' just before 'e died,
"I 'ope you liked your drink" sez Gunga Din.
So I'll meet 'im later on
At the place where 'e is gone
Where it's always double drill and no canteen.
'E'll be squattin' on the coals
Givin' drink to poor damned souls,
An' I'll get a swig in hell from Gunga Din!
Yes, Din! Din! Din!
You Lazarushian-leather Gunga Din!
Though I've belted you and flayed you,
By the livin' Gawd that made you,
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
You may talk o' gin and beer
When you're quartered safe out 'ere,
An' you're sent to penny-fights an' Aldershot it;
But when it comes to slaughter
You will do your work on water,
An' you'll lick the bloomin' boots of 'im that's got it.
Now in Injia's sunny clime,
Where I used to spend my time
A-servin' of 'Er Majesty the Queen,
Of all them blackfaced crew
The finest man I knew
Was our regimental bhisti, Gunga Din.
He was "Din! Din! Din!
"You limpin' lump o' brick-dust, Gunga Din!
"Hi! Slippy hitherao!
"Water, get it! Panee lao
"You squidgy-nosed old idol, Gunga Din."
The uniform 'e wore
Was nothin' much before,
An' rather less than 'arf o' that be'ind,
For a piece o' twisty rag
An' a goatskin water-bag
Was all the field-equipment 'e could find.
When the sweatin' troop-train lay
In a sidin' through the day,
Where the 'eat would make your bloomin' eyebrows crawl,
We shouted " Harry By!"
Till our throats were bricky-dry,
Then we wopped 'im 'cause 'e couldn't serve us all.
It was "Din! Din! Din!
"You 'eathen, where the mischief 'ave you been?
"You put some juldee in it
"Or I'll marrow you this minute
"If you don't fill up my helmet, Gunga Din!"
'E would dot an' carry one
Till the longest day was done;
An' 'e didn't seem to know the use o' fear.
If we charged or broke or cut,
You could bet your bloomin' nut,
'E'd be waitin' fifty paces right flank rear.
With 'is mussick' on 'is back,
'E would skip with our attack,
An' watch us till the bugles made "Retire,"
An' for all 'is dirty 'ide
'E was white, clear white, inside
When 'e went to tend the wounded under fire!
It was "Din! Din! Din!"
With the bullets kickin' dust-spots on the green
When the cartridges ran out,
You could hear the front-ranks shout,
"Hi! ammunition-mules an' Gunga Din!"
I sha'n't forgit the night
When I dropped be'ind the fight
With a bullet where my belt-plate should 'a' been.
I was chokin' mad with thirst,
An' the man that spied me first
Was our good old grinnin', gruntin' Gunga Din.
'E lifted up my 'ead,
An' he plugged me where I bled, An' 'e guv me 'arf-a-pint o' water green.
It was crawlin' and it stunk,
But of all the drinks I've drunk,
I'm gratefullest to one from Gunga Din.
It was "Din! Din! Din!
"'Ere's a beggar with a bullet through 'is spleen"
"'E's chawin' up the ground,
"An' 'e's kickin' all around:
"For Gawd's sake git the water, Gunga Din!
'E carried me away
To where a dooli lay,
An' a bullet come an' drilled the beggar clean.
'E put me safe inside,
An' just before 'e died,
"I 'ope you liked your drink" sez Gunga Din.
So I'll meet 'im later on
At the place where 'e is gone
Where it's always double drill and no canteen.
'E'll be squattin' on the coals
Givin' drink to poor damned souls,
An' I'll get a swig in hell from Gunga Din!
Yes, Din! Din! Din!
You Lazarushian-leather Gunga Din!
Though I've belted you and flayed you,
By the livin' Gawd that made you,
You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
Hinch- Spaceship Commander
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Location : Stradhoughton
Re: Why should they be given visas?
Charly Wed May 22, 2013 10:26 pm
We had this problem when the Gurkhas wanted to stay here after their service ended, in my opinion if they have served our country then they should have the opportunity to live here if they so wish.
Charly- Spaceship Commander
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Location : Wardle
Re: Why should they be given visas?
Atlas Thu May 23, 2013 1:41 am
Each side has a moral duty to support its combatants/supporters in whatever sphere they operate. You choose what you percieve to be your duty/following/support and live with those consequences. Each should look after its own - the rest is emotional rhetoric. End of. 
We are not talking 'immigration' here.
We are not talking 'immigration' here. 
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Location : Wales
Re: Why should they be given visas?
Hinch Thu May 23, 2013 7:20 am
Right on Atlas.
When the Americans pulled out of Vietnam, they left all the intelligence files on their interpreters and contacts. Thousands of these were rounded up by the Vietnam Cong and executed together with their families.
I hope that Britain and our armed forces have a keener sense of their obligations.
I think SB is way out of step on this one.
When the Americans pulled out of Vietnam, they left all the intelligence files on their interpreters and contacts. Thousands of these were rounded up by the Vietnam Cong and executed together with their families.
I hope that Britain and our armed forces have a keener sense of their obligations.
I think SB is way out of step on this one.
Hinch- Spaceship Commander
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Location : Stradhoughton
Re: Why should they be given visas?
Charly Thu May 23, 2013 8:20 am
Now the 2 who killed the young soldier in London yesterday saying they were doing it for what is happening in Afghanistan shouldnt have been shot to maim, they should have been shot dead.
There was no doubt about guilt and now I can see a lengthy court battle and human rights lawyers getting on the bandwagon...all at taxpayers cost.
There was no doubt about guilt and now I can see a lengthy court battle and human rights lawyers getting on the bandwagon...all at taxpayers cost.
Charly- Spaceship Commander
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Re: Why should they be given visas?
Hinch Thu May 23, 2013 8:28 am
No doubt questions will be asked as to why they were shot at all as they had carried out their assassination and were waiting around to be arrested.
Memories of Gibraltar!
I imagine that the Dibble wanted them for interrogation and decided only to wound and incapacitate.
Memories of Gibraltar!
I imagine that the Dibble wanted them for interrogation and decided only to wound and incapacitate.
Hinch- Spaceship Commander
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Re: Why should they be given visas?
cyfrifia Thu May 23, 2013 8:59 am
Charly wrote:Now the 2 who killed the young soldier in London yesterday
The news yesterday was horrifying. The UK has an ongoing responsibility for people like the Afghan interpreters, but, it needs to be done carefully. The implications of bringing foreign wars to English streets was seen in what happened in Woolwich yesterday.
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Re: Why should they be given visas?
Charly Thu May 23, 2013 9:02 am
It remains to be seen how long those 2 had actually lived in this country.
Those 2 might not have ever been to Afghanistan
Those 2 might not have ever been to Afghanistan
Charly- Spaceship Commander
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Re: Why should they be given visas?
Hinch Thu May 23, 2013 11:23 am
The big risk here is of 'copy-cat killings'. So easy now for fanatics to get their message round the world in seconds thanks to smart-phones, Facebook, Twitter etc.
Any scrote can become a 'hero' with so little effort but with such terrible consequences.
They seemingly have little to fear from the law but in this case, life really should mean just that.
There really is a case for very high security prisons on the lines of the Florence Supermax for terrorists and other high profile killings.
Any scrote can become a 'hero' with so little effort but with such terrible consequences.
They seemingly have little to fear from the law but in this case, life really should mean just that.
There really is a case for very high security prisons on the lines of the Florence Supermax for terrorists and other high profile killings.
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