International violence and UK security.

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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  Atlas on Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:38 pm

First and foremost the general public would baulk, nay, rebel had they the knowledge of what our security forces 'get up to' in order to keep our security solid. The human rights rabble would pour forth like a cancerous flood and undermine, nay, decimate our safety all in the name of 'fairness'. Ignorance both in knowledge and the lack of are our worst enemy. Our population has both in 'spades'.
Horses for courses. You do your job and I will do mine.
All that is required is that we, the public, keep our interest in fair play foremost in our minds and watch for those 'few' that would misuse their 'power' and, if necessary, call them to task.
Regardless of one's politics we haven't done too badly so far. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:35 pm

Must be hard work for the 'security services' keeping an eye on all the Jihadi looneys. Bit like psychiatric nursing.

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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  Atlas on Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:23 pm

It was ever thus with the change that now the 'anarchist/terrorist' is, in the main, younger and more educated, although with less worldly common-sense, and more prone to auto-suggestion. We should by now have created special 'wards' for these immature lunatics in which the brain could be slowly rationalised over a period of a few years. We wouldn't want to keep them for life - it's uneconomical. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Sep 01, 2016 12:11 pm

That's an interesting idea, an institution of some kind that could produce rational people within a few years. If the process could be speeded up to a matter of months, it could prove very popular.

What would the program be? About an hour a day whittling sticks would be included I guess.

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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  Atlas on Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:30 pm

No absolutely not. Chain-gang hard labour for 6 months watched over by armed guards. No brutality would be allowed just simple discipline. Dissenters would be ostracised from the rest and their problems and reasons analysed by specialist psychoanalysts as to best practices and proceeding. Those that accepted the program (which would be outlined upon incarceration) steadily reduced to more tasks suitable to their abilities. The minimum would be three years as I'm sure that the majority would be young (19 -25) and far more easily rehabilitated back into the community. Convicted persons after serving out their time would be resettled away from their original communities and if they wanted given new names etc etc. As a final warning they would be on a watch list for a further 5 years but be told it would be for a 20 year period. I would suggest that such a program would in the long run be less a drain on society's pockets and society would get the best from such returnees.Smile
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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:17 am

Those methods might work for some, but in the case of Islamic extremist terrorists, religion is in some way integral to the behavior. The program you describe might have little useful effect on that.

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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  Atlas on Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:27 pm

Religion is a learned subject and therefore un-learnable as well. It would be a simple de-nazification programme in the same vein as post WW2. There's no difference in the methods required. What is put in can be taken out. You will never get 100% success. But as the previous programmes have shown a near 95% would be good enough. Initially it has all to do with peer pressures or introversion. One simply replicates and works the process in reverse. Carrots abound. Job done.Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:58 pm

The historical circumstances surrounding the post WW2 de-nazification program were so very different to those of Islamic extremism today it seems unlikely the same methods would work. However it might be worth a try.

The  albino "specialist psychoanalysts" might have an opinion.

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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  Atlas on Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:53 pm

What has been learned and accepted can be unlearned and accepted. The process may have been different (although I would argue that such was not the case) but in the main it is simply the tutoring of a young, eager naive mentality into accepting as normal a certain pathway of beliefs and actions. Collectively easier as one young mind feeds of another of similar thought patterns. In isolation a little harder but still as effective once accomplished. No two individuals are the same but all are susceptible in the right circumstances.
It can be done. All it takes is the will and the resources. Are young lives worth the effort? Are the children/ young people not the future?Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:59 pm

The program you describe could only be imposed on those who had already committed terrorist crimes. There would be opposition to a program that could be characterised as 'brain-washing'. It's difficult to see how anything like that could be used preventitively for children/young people. It isn't a crime for them to believe strong political/religious ideas, but they do need to be presented with a credible alternative.

Some sort of non-compulsory program promoting the idea of non-violence might be useful. It would need to be done in the appropriate Islamic language.

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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  Atlas on Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:49 pm

But of course it's only for those returnees or those already inculcated. As for the vast majority of youngsters we should continue to teach our British values and laws as sacrosanct and ensure that all schools, private or public or faith or whatever, have such a programme on their curriculum. No exceptions. Schools and teachers found to be failing in this should be closed down and the teachers barred from further educating the under 25 year olds for life.

We need to safeguard the future generations from civil strife. The object of Islam, by some, is to take over the worlds religion in favour of a very draconian way of life and liberties. You start with the young (as they are doing) and you fight back and you win. Again it's not rocket science. But you have to have the will to succeed. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Mad Mad Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:12 am

Does the "will to succeed" exist? The British are habitually tolerant, and sheltered by our security forces. People get 'het up' about small things and don't think much about the bigger issues, until they come to their own neighbourhood.


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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  Atlas on Tue Sep 06, 2016 2:47 pm

How very observant of you. T'is the British way i'm afraid. The sleeping lion. it was ever thus. Which is why it always costs us dear whenever we are bullied from our slumber. What can one say - Shocked Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Wink Wink Wink
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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:37 am

I wish to complain about this Lion.
Oh yes, what's wrong with it?
I'll tell you what's wrong with it, it's dead that's what's wrong with it.
No no, it's resting, look
I know a dead lion when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
No no it's not dead it's resting.
Resting?
Yes. Remarkable animal the British Lion, beautiful plumage, innit.
The plumage don't enter into it, it's stone dead.
No no it's resting.
All right then if it's resting. I'll . . . . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218

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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  Atlas on Wed Sep 07, 2016 2:36 pm

Shouldn't that be 'parrot'! Wink Wink Wink

Now. There was this great big lion called Wallace.
He had a nose all covered in scars.
And he lay in a somnolent posture.
With the side of his face on the bars.


Now Albert had heard about lions
And how they were barmy and wild
And to see yon Wallace so peaceful.
Well, it didn’t seem right to the child.


So straightaway the brave little fella.
Not showing a morsel of fear.
Took his stick wi’ his ‘orses ‘ead ‘andle.
And rammed it in Wallaces ear.


Methinks 'Lion' much more appropriate. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:37 pm

You could see that the lion didn't like it
For giving a kind of a roll
He pulled Albert inside the cage with 'im
And swallowed the little lad... whole!

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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  Atlas on Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:42 pm

Now Pa, who had seen the occurrence
And didn’t know what t’ do next.
Said, Mother. Yon lions et Albert.
And Mother said. Well, dear me, Now I am vexed.

Then Mr and Mrs Ramsbottom,
Quite rightly when all’s said and done,
Complained to the Animal Keeper
That yon lion had et Albert their son.
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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:36 pm

The keeper was quite nice about it
He said, "What a nasty mishap
Are you sure that it's your lad he's eaten?"
Pa said, "Am I sure? There's his cap!"

So the manager had to be sent for
He came and he said, "What's to do?"
Pa said, "Yon lion's 'eaten our Albert
And 'im in his Sunday clothes, too."

Then Mother said, "Right's right, young feller
I think it's a shame and a sin
For a lion to go and eat Albert
And after we've paid to come in!"

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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  Atlas on Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:50 pm

The Manager wanted no trouble.
He took out his purse straight away
And saying, ‘How much t’ settle the matter’?
Pa said, ‘What d’ yer usually pay’?

But Mother had turned a bit awkward.
When she thought as were Albert had gone.
She said, ‘No. Somebody’s got t’ be summonsed’.
So that was decided upon.

Then off they went to the Cop shop.
In front of some magistrate chap.
They told him what happened to Albert.
And proved it by showing his cap.
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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:59 pm

The Magistrate gave his o-pinion
That no-one was really to blame
He said that he hoped the Ramsbottoms
Would have further sons to their name.

At that Mother got proper blazing
"And thank you, sir, kindly," said she
"What! waste all our lives raising children
To feed ruddy lions? Not me!"

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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  Atlas on Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:59 pm

Of course it's a laugh and especially when Stan Holloway did it. However it holds a much deeper meaning as did all of 'Marriot's' soliloquies. Written a decade after the end of the First World War it was a hidden slap at the waste of a generation and the lack of concern or compassion from the Establishment regardless of the memorials that littered the country. Marriot was a pacifist.
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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:47 pm

The Return of Albert.

You've 'eard 'ow young Albert Ramsbottom,
In the Zoo up at Blackpool one year
With a stick with an 'orse's 'ead 'andle
Gave a lion a poke in the ear?

The name of the lion was Wallace,
The poke in the ear made 'im wild;
And before you could say "Bob's your Uncle,"
'E'd up and 'e'd swallowed the child.

'E were sorry the moment 'e'd done it;
With children 'e'd always been chums,
And besides, 'e'd no teeth in his noddle,
And 'e couldn't chew Albert on t'gums.

'E could feel the lad movin' inside 'im,
As 'e lay on 'is bed of dried ferns,
And it might 'ave been little lad's birthday-
'E wished 'im such 'appy returns.

But Albert kept kicking and fighting,
Till Wallace arose, feeling bad.
And felt it were time that 'e started
To stage a comeback for the lad.

So with 'is 'ead down in a corner,
On 'is front paws 'e started to walk,
And 'e coughed and 'e sneezed and 'e gargled,
'Till Albert shot out like a cork.

Old Wallace felt better direc'ly,
And 'is figure once more became lean,
But the only difference with Albert
Was 'is face and 'is 'ands were quite clean.

Meanwhile Mister and Missus Ramsbottom
'Ad gone home to tea, feelin' blue;
Ma says "I feel down in the mouth like."
Pa says, "Aye, I bet Albert does, too."

Said Ma "It just goes for to show yer
That the future is never revealed;
If I'd thought we was goin' to lose 'im
I'd 'ave not 'ad 'is boots soled and 'eeled."

"Let's look on the bright side," said Father;
"What can't be 'elped must be endured;
Every cloud 'as a silvery lining,
And we did 'ave young Albert insured."

A knock on the door came that moment,
As Father these kind words did speak.
'Twas the man from t'Prudential - 'e'd called for
Their tuppence per person per week.

When Father saw 'oo 'ad been knockin',
'E laughed, and 'e kept laughin' so
That the young man said "'What's there to laugh at?"
Pa said "You'll laugh an' all when you know."

"Excuse 'im for laughing," said Mother,
"But really, things 'appen so strange -
Our Albert's been ate by a lion;
You've got to pay us for a change."

Said the young feller from the Prudential,
"Now, come, come, let's understand this-
You don't mean to say that you've lost 'im?"
Ma says "Oh, no! we know where 'e is."

When the young man 'ad 'eard all the details,
A purse from 'is pocket he drew,
And 'e paid them, with int'rest and bonus,
The sum of nine pounds, four and two.

Pa 'ad scarce got 'is 'and on the money
When a face at the window they see,
And Mother says "Eeh! look, it's Albert."
And Father says "Aye, it would be."

Young Albert came in all excited,
And started 'is story to give,
And Pa says "I'll never trust lions
Again, not as long as I live."

The young man from the Prudential
To pick up the money began,
And Father says "Eeh! just a moment,
Don't be in a 'urry, young man."

Then giving young Albert a shilling,
He said "Pop off back to the Zoo.
"'Ere's yer stick with the 'orse's 'ead 'andle-
Go and see wot the Tigers can do!"

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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  Atlas on Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:39 pm

Well done. Memory or internet? I list Albert and the Lion in my book 'Ower Darkling' with a few slight changes for Lancashire dialect - being one of my most early memories of the demise of Vaudeville. George. M. Edgar (Marriot) was apparently quite adept at soliloquies. Very - my time as a child in the North. And where does that take us in International 'matters'. I think possibly how to face the times when adversity reigns. It's human so it's going to happen and we face and make the best of things - with a wry smile.Wink Wink Wink
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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Sep 12, 2016 8:27 pm

Found The Return of Albert on 'tinternet, it all sounds familiar from long ago, clever and witty. Is there a name for that sort of saga? Allegorical verse or something?
Where does that take us on the subject of the thread? As you say, keep calm and carry on, with a wry smile.
Meanwhile all sorts of nutters are running round murdering people, the situation is slow to improve.

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Re: International violence and UK security.

Post  Atlas on Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:50 pm

If delivered to oneself ( as in telling oneself a story or concocting the same) it would be a soliloquy. If delivering to an audience (others) an allegory. As with Stan Holloway - an allegory. As with Shakespeare (as in to no-one in particular) a soliloquy. Whatever, whichever - we cannot change the world. Am I my brothers keeper? Not even the richest amongst us could do that. Which let's me and you off the hook kid.Neutral Neutral Neutral Question
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