Swift justice

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Swift justice

Post  Charly on Thu May 30, 2013 9:46 am

A Middleton man is facing jail after putting 'racist' remarks on facebook regarding the murder of Lee Rigby.
The police went to his home and arrested him the same day that the comments appeared...
How come its taken over a decade to bring the hate preachers to court?
Is a different rule applied?
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Re: Swift justice

Post  cyfrifia on Thu May 30, 2013 1:26 pm



There does appear to be a disparity. Policing should be as free of political pressure as possible, especially if that political pressure is misguided.

The evil butchery of the Woolwich murder was so technicolor, vivid and immediate on TV and internet, it's hardly surprising people reacted badly on Facebook or whatever.

What is surprising is that we haven't heard more from peace loving muslim leaders speaking against the preachers of violence and murder.


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Re: Swift justice

Post  past it on Thu May 30, 2013 6:32 pm

Charly wrote:A Middleton man is facing jail after putting 'racist' remarks on facebook regarding the murder of Lee Rigby.
The police went to his home and arrested him the same day that the comments appeared...
How come its taken over a decade to bring the hate preachers to court?
Is a different rule applied?

It has not taken a decade to bring them to court. The problem has been the inability to either stop them preaching or deporting them.

past it
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Re: Swift justice

Post  Charly on Thu May 30, 2013 10:41 pm

Ok maybe it didnt take a decade to get them to court but a decade has gone by and they're still at it, is what I should have said.
This guy who posted on facebook is looking at a custodial sentence, I think hes in court again next week (?)
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Re: Swift justice

Post  johnb on Fri May 31, 2013 9:46 am

They can find this one and prove the case within the letter and spirit of the law.

With the so called hate preachers, it is much more difficult, since what they say is not covered by legal sanction. Convictions have to be safe.
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Re: Swift justice

Post  teamplayer2 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:41 pm

It is known that hate preachers do say some of the thing it is catching them doing it or getting others to testify from their own community that is the problem I think. Though I may be wrong Charly.

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Re: Swift justice

Post  Charly on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:06 pm

Was amused this morning while reading text news, Deyka Ayan Hussain a 21 year old student had put a post on Facebook saying those people wearing 'Help for Heroes' t shirts deserved to be beheaded.
She reported threatening comments she received and was arrested and taken to court where she has been sentenced to 250 hours unpaid work.
Laughing
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Re: Swift justice

Post  teamplayer2 on Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:17 pm

Should think so Charly. I cannot understand these people. The law has got to work for all of all and anyone. Not pick when they feel like it.
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Re: Swift justice

Post  Dalelad on Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:05 pm

Charly wrote:Was amused this morning while reading text news, Deyka Ayan Hussain a 21 year old student had put a post on Facebook saying those people wearing 'Help for Heroes' t shirts deserved to be beheaded.
She reported threatening comments she received and was arrested and taken to court where she has been sentenced to 250 hours unpaid work.
Laughing
Not defending her comment but the threats included ones to her life and that she was going to be raped. Not very nice.
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Re: Swift justice

Post  Chill37 on Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:39 pm

Dalelad wrote:
Charly wrote:Was amused this morning while reading text news, Deyka Ayan Hussain a 21 year old student had put a post on Facebook saying those people wearing 'Help for Heroes' t shirts deserved to be beheaded.
She reported threatening comments she received and was arrested and taken to court where she has been sentenced to 250 hours unpaid work.
Laughing
Not defending her comment but the threats included ones to her life and that she was going to be raped. Not very nice.

Maybe so . But her comments of people to lose their heads for wearing a certain t-shirt is clearly going to get the attention of faceless trolls. Not making excuses for these comments. But what Deyka expect for her , frankly, disturbing comment of summary beheadings?

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Re: Swift justice

Post  Charly on Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:19 pm

[quote="Dalelad"]

I didn't realise saying people ought to be beheaded for wearing a certain t shirt was very nice either and isn't beheading classed as a threat to someone's life? Haven't heard of anyone surviving it!
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Re: Swift justice

Post  Dalelad on Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:24 pm

I'll repeat; NOT defending her comments...

Don't find any of the episode amusing. Either her beheading comments or the subsequent threats to kill and/or rape her.
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Re: Swift justice

Post  Dalelad on Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:28 pm

Chill37 wrote:
Dalelad wrote:
Charly wrote:Was amused this morning while reading text news, Deyka Ayan Hussain a 21 year old student had put a post on Facebook saying those people wearing 'Help for Heroes' t shirts deserved to be beheaded.
She reported threatening comments she received and was arrested and taken to court where she has been sentenced to 250 hours unpaid work.
Laughing
Not defending her comment but the threats included ones to her life and that she was going to be raped. Not very nice.

Maybe so . But her comments of people to lose their heads for wearing a certain t-shirt is clearly going to get the attention of faceless trolls. Not making excuses for these comments. But what Deyka expect for her , frankly, disturbing comment of summary beheadings?

Yes, worrying times, Chill. There are many people on all sides who, seemingly, don't need much of an excuse to exhibit dislike for or hate of those they perceive to be different and as an extension, on the other side to them, and anyone else who they have lumped together into the same group.
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Re: Swift justice

Post  Charly on Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:31 am

Dalelad wrote:I'll repeat; NOT defending her comments...

Don't find any of the episode amusing. Either her beheading comments or the subsequent threats to kill and/or rape her.

The part I found amusing was that she reported others for retaliating to her comments, somehow it seems she thought it was ok for her but not for others, bet she was shocked when she was the one prosecuted.
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Re: Swift justice

Post  teamplayer2 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:47 pm

Lot of it about these days Charly. People who like dishing it out, but do not like it back.
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Re: Swift justice

Post  Atlas on Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:35 am

teamplayer2 wrote:Lot of it about these days affraid . People who like dishing it out, but do not like it back.


Gags in disbelief. affraid
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Re: Swift justice

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:41 pm

The girl who tweeted that people wearing T shirts she doesn't like, deserve to be beheaded, was very silly. You could say outstandingly silly, but there are a lot of silly people about, so 'very silly' will do.

There are also too many nutters about with machetes.

Quote "a man of Somali appearance began attacking worshippers with a machete."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-22924456

There is no good reason to own a machete in the UK, it's not as if it's a jungle you have to hack your way through, is it? They should be banned.

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Re: Swift justice

Post  Atlas on Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:32 am

I have two cyfrifia. Indispensable when clearing collapsed woodlands. It's not the tools - it's the 'tools' that use them.WinkSmileVery Happy
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Re: Swift justice

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:30 am

Reasonably true, Atlas. I am just a bit fed up with the way things have gone with the stabbing, shooting and general violence we hear so much of, and that recent murder and attempted beheading and disemboweling of a soldier in London was the last straw.

Yes, people who have a genuine reason to use a 'killer' knife, machete or gun should be able to own and use one, under license, but there is far too much acceptance of criminals and crazy people carrying them around. 

The government was going to ban guns after the massacres of quite a few years back, they never did. Similar, carrying knives was going to be straight to jail, it never was.

If there were far fewer of these weapons around, and the police kept tabs on those using them for crime it might help stop escalation and acceptance of violence.

Yes, if someone decides to kill or maim, there are lots of ways to do that, is one side of the argument, on the other hand, why should a peaceful society tolerate criminals with butchers knives?

The detail of how to disarm the people who buy, own, carry, and intend to use such weapons is complicated, but it's something that needs doing.

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Re: Swift justice

Post  Dalelad on Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:36 pm

I've got any number of knives in the kitchen drawer that could be used to kill someone, and then dismember them. We can't ban everything that could be used as a weapon.
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Re: Swift justice

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:19 pm

That's nice, and where do you bury them, under the patio?

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Re: Swift justice

Post  Guest on Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:30 pm

Dalelad wrote:
I've got any number of knives in the kitchen drawer that could be used to kill someone, and then dismember them. We can't ban everything that could be used as a weapon.
 
Same here and all bought legitimately for food preparation.     Much of the garden equipment is potentially lethal and I suspect our toughest ' loppers ' could easily be used for criminal purposes.    



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Re: Swift justice

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:35 pm

Perhaps we are missing the point here?

Of course humankind have been using tools and weapons since time immemorial. Stone age people probably smashed each others heads in with rocks, a method perfectly adequate for the purpouse.

Now that we are more 'civilised', with a huge range of deadly weapons at our disposal, we depend upon rules, laws and customs to maintain a peaceful co-existence and a sense of security. Those rules, laws and customs do change, as society changes.

At the moment, and over recent years, due to certain national and international reasons, there is an increase in the number of stabbings and beheadings. See link.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-22959089

The rules, laws and customs of our society need to be changed, so that when people buy, sell, own, carry or wave about machetes, samauri swords and butchers cleavers, a certain amount of control and scrutiny is exercised over such activity. Smile

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Re: Swift justice

Post  Guest on Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:48 pm

cyfrifia wrote:Perhaps we are missing the point here?                              -----------

At the moment, and over recent years, due to certain national and international reasons, there is an increase in the number of stabbings and beheadings. See link.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-22959089

The rules, laws and customs of our society need to be changed, so that when people buy, sell, own, carry or wave about machetes, samauri swords and butchers cleavers, a certain amount of control and scrutiny is exercised over such activity. Smile

That seems quite a gruesome story you've quoted above, i.e.  a 21yr old male charged with the murder of his girlfriend who had suffered a severe knife attack resulting in fatal injuries, including the severing of her head.  pale             Earlier reports 'suggested' he was also found unconscious with severe knife injuries, including a gauged out body part, in what was described, at the time, as a domestic incident     http://crimeandjustice.co.uk/2013/06/18/21yr-old-male-charged-with-reema-ramzan/

HOW could anyone legislate against the ownership of knives used in any such incident ?  I fail to understand the point you believe the public is missing.  


The UK can legislate against crimes and the use of weapons, whether they be sticks, stones, baseball bats, 'decorative' swords or the array of bladed items that we all use, etcetera, but you advocate further controls of purchase and activity scrutiny.  How Question  


I would have thought punishments or attempted murder by beheading/execution might involve a kind of barbaric ritual ...

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Re: Swift justice

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Jun 19, 2013 12:40 am

The BBC report didn't go into such detail. I've said that how to reduce the number of, and acceptance of knives and similar offensive/defensive weapons being used is difficult and complicated, but needs doing.

In the end it is all in the mind, if society is violent and violence accepted as normal, that's a poor outlook. We should do what is possible to reduce such a mindset.

Ownership of a machete should not be considered as 'normal'. People who live in towns and cities do not need machetes. Very few people actually need them for practical reasons. The situation should be that anyone owning or carrying a machete, or indeed a sword or butchers cleaver should be required to explain themself and why they need such weapons/tools. It's about attitudes within society really.

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