Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Hinch on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:39 am

Ex DC Margaret Oliver very impressive in the interview. Our caring, compassionate, Christian Chief Constable should hang his head in shame... after resigning.
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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:30 am

Mojo Hill wrote:

and this is serious

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/fileon4/fileon4_20130326-2050a.mp3

It is serious, in the sense that what has been happening in Rochdale is becoming public knowledge, and the reputation of the town is plummeting even further, perhaps irretrievably so, but it's a good thing that the facts are coming to light.


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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Hinch on Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:41 am

`The facts' would appear to have been known for a long time by the police, social services, some heath workers and possibly others including hundreds of 'customers' of the victims.

Amazing to think they could keep a lid on it forever but hey- This Is Rochdale.

Despite the boasting that others can learn from Rochdale 's handling of the situation, I see not a shred of evidence to make me believe that this has ended, bearing in mind the fact that further arrests have been made and that the Vaz Inquiry has still to report its findings.

Any boasting is woefully premature.
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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Chill37 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:43 am

The only thing that can be learnt from Rochdale is how NOT to do it/handle it.


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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Poppyanna555 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 11:00 am

This is so sad, this lady has chosen to walk away from a career she loves, yet another victim in this whole sorry affair and I am sure she is not alone.

Why is there such inertia surrounding these grooming cases? Could it be 'head in the sand' syndrome or is the grooming situation just too hot to handle or, has it all become far too big for GMP and other Authorities to manage?

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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:42 pm

All of those things, and it's ongoing.

Chief Constable Sir Peter Fahy said "There are a number of men in the Rochdale area that we believe continue to try and groom, and to try and abuse young people and that is why we are using a range of tactics to disrupt their activities."

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/fileon4/fileon4_20130326-2050a.mp3


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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Chill37 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:45 pm

cyfrifia wrote:All of those things, and it's ongoing.

Chief Constable Sir Peter Fahy said "There are a number of men in the Rochdale area that we believe continue to try and groom, and to try and abuse young people and that is why we are using a range of tactics to disrupt their activities."

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/podcasts/radio4/fileon4/fileon4_20130326-2050a.mp3


Correct me if I am wrong, but surely the act of grooming is illegal. So would a tactic be arresting them on charges of grooming and getting them of the street?

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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Charly on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:00 pm

Now come on Chill, that would be joined up thinking! Laughing
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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Chill37 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:48 pm

Charly wrote:Now come on Chill, that would be joined up thinking! Laughing

Ah of course. I am a mere mortal blessed with common sense and joined up thinking. Maybe I should run a course in it.

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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:21 pm

Chill37 wrote:Correct me if I am wrong, but surely the act of grooming is illegal. So would a tactic be arresting them on charges of grooming and getting them of the street?

Depends what you mean by 'grooming'. The police can only do what the law allows. Some responsibility must lie with the general population, if they ignore or are disinterested in what goes on.

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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Charly on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:16 pm

cyfrifia wrote:
Some responsibility must lie with the general population, if they ignore or are disinterested in what goes on.

Anyone who I have ever spoken to about this grooming situation are far from 'disinterested' or wish to 'ignore' it, so I dont know where you get that idea from!
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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Chill37 on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:25 pm

If anyone is ignoring then maybe we can all start with all those in charge who came up with the comment 'its a life style choice' and went on to totally ignore the victims. Dont even get me started on the 'lessons will be learnt' clap trap and the usual reports/enquries that will never be published.

Yet Rochdale has the gaul to start preaching to others about how to prevent this ever happening to other people with spys in Taxis. Then to top it off we have the news that numerous people who are grooming are still wandering our streets and the Police response is to say they are using tactics.

Mind boggles as to what these tactics are.

Anyone care to divulge? I think that ANY sort of grooming is illegal in my eyes,

This occurance is being very strongly discussed where I work. My family and friends are always talking about it. So for you to say its being ignored is very wide of the mark. Dare I say also- is false.




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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:40 pm

Maybe that's the people you talk with Charly. The situation has been allowed to go on in 'plain sight' for years with no-one doing anything about it. True, people didn't know the depth of depravity, but it was obvious something pretty iffy was going on. I can't believe everyone is so uninformed as to not have a clue about the seamy side of the taxi and takeaway culture. It isn't just Rochdale, many northern towns have the same thing. To pretend ignorance of grooming, prostitution and sex exploitation is like saying " Drug dealing! Really I had no idea that goes on."

The Rochdale frame of mind was displayed well when Roger Ellis gave evidence. Never asked questions, knew nothing and so felt no sense of personal culpability.

Not being ignored today, Chill, but it was. That's how it came to how it is today, blind eyes and cultural sensitivity.

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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Charly on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:43 pm

cyfrifia wrote:Maybe that's the people you talk with Charly. The situation has been allowed to go on in 'plain sight' for years with no-one doing anything about it. True, people didn't know the depth of depravity, but it was obvious something pretty iffy was going on. I can't believe everyone is so uninformed as to not have a clue about the seamy side of the taxi and takeaway culture. It isn't just Rochdale, many northern towns have the same thing. To pretend ignorance of grooming, prostitution and sex exploitation is like saying " Drug dealing! Really I had no idea that goes on."

The Rochdale frame of mind was displayed well when Roger Ellis gave evidence. Never asked questions, knew nothing and so felt no sense of personal culpability.

You are talking about those who are trying to cover their own asses, not the general population!or are you backtracking on what you said earlier?

" Some responsibility must lie with the general population, if they ignore or are disinterested in what goes on." .
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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:48 pm

Opinions will vary on this emotive subject. The point I am making is that the police can only act within the law, society has to look after itself to a great extent.

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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Hinch on Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:57 pm

Sadly, a lot of people that I talk to in my line of work blame the press for focusing on 'bad news stories ' and cite the grooming issue as a prime example. My assertion that this is a very legitimate matter of public interest both locally and nationally butters no parsnips.

I could never work for an organisation that stayed silent on this issue.

Until we face up to it and get it sorted out, Rochdale will continue to be some sort of sick joke.
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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Guest on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:28 pm

cyfrifia wrote: Opinions will vary on this emotive subject. The point I am making is that the police can only act within the law, society has to look after itself to a great extent.
Cyfrifria: Wouldn’t you credit the former DC for going public and giving her concerns, along with explanation?

I thought abuse and rape are against the law and therefore subject to police actions.

cyfrifia wrote: The Rochdale frame of mind was displayed well when Roger Ellis gave evidence. Never asked questions, knew nothing and so felt no sense of personal culpability.
The GMP, like the local Trinity Mirror group and RMBC, surely chooses what information it decides is appropriate for the public domain? Isn’t it possible that selective local-area media releases have dogged this grooming subject for far too long?

We do get information from other media and sources though, like:


Rochdale News Sex abusers walking the streets of Rochdale due to failure to use witness evidence


http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/79007/sex-abusers-walking-the-streets-of-rochdale-due-to-failure-to-use-witness-evidence

and the Radio:

The complete piece was aired on Tues 26th at 8.00 pm on BBC’S Radio 4 ‘File on 4’ programme. You can listen via the Radio 4 website or via the File on 4 download. It’s being repeated again this Sunday, March 31, at 5.00 pm.


and from some national press

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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Jeanie on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:52 pm

I never have understood "WHY" the original number arrested was 30 yet only 9 went to court and were convicted ! the rest were let off on bail ?
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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Hinch on Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:57 pm

If you have a 'preferred media partner's' such as the MEN group, you do it for a reason. Presumably part of that reason is that you feel 'comfortable' with them.
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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Hinch on Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:00 pm

Jeanie wrote:I never have understood "WHY" the original number arrested was 30 yet only 9 went to court and were convicted ! the rest were let off on bail ?

I think GMP this week have been very frank on this issue Jeanie. Previous records of witnesses, inconsistency of accounts... Usual hogwash.
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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Jeanie on Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:07 pm

Not frank enough though, it is high time the rest of them were re-arrested but unfortunately rumour has it they are already out of the country and beyond trace !!!
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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:27 pm

Mojo Hill wrote:
cyfrifia wrote: Opinions will vary on this emotive subject. The point I am making is that the police can only act within the law, society has to look after itself to a great extent.
Cyfrifria: Wouldn’t you credit the former DC for going public and giving her concerns, along with explanation?

Yes of course, the lady detective constable that resigned from her job with the police and has spoken to the media, presents as a very decent person, doing her best for the victims she worked with, and for the people of Rochdale.

Mr. Danczuk said the number of predators successfully prosecuted is a "drop in ocean" compared to the number of predators still preying on children.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/79117/rochdale-mp-says-a-change-in-police-culture-is-needed-in-sex-abuse-cases

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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Guest on Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:43 pm

Chill37 wrote:The only thing that can be learnt from Rochdale is how NOT to do it/handle it.

Evil or Very Mad
and 'Here we go yet again !'

Trinity Mirror report: Second police probe ordered into Rochdale child grooming scandal
19 April 2013 14:21

Greater Manchester Police have been reviewing their original probe into child sex abuse allegations in the town five years ago. ( Question Why are they only going back five years ? )

Police have carried out a second inquiry into their failed Rochdale grooming investigation – after regulators rejected the first.

Despite childcare professionals urging action, none was taken at the time – leading an official report to eventually slam GMP for 'missed opportunities'.

It has now emerged that regulators ordered it to carry out an internal inquiry into the failings two years ago, supervised by them. ----- But the resulting report – submitted to the Independent Police Complaints Commission last February – was rejected as insufficiently in-depth.

The IPCC then demanded a second review. That report was submitted last month and is currently being considered.

An IPCC spokesman said: “The IPCC received an initial report from Greater Manchester Police as part of the supervised investigation into how the force had conducted an investigation in 2008 into allegations of sexual grooming. ( So, it reads like it IS a limited, 'date-restricted' investigation into a 2008 case ...)

“When acting in a supervisory role, the IPCC determines whether an investigation has been thorough and examined all the matters set down in the terms of reference. ------- “Following thorough consideration of the report and information supplied by GMP, the IPCC asked that additional investigative work be done and a revised investigation report supplied.

Rochdale MP Simon Danczuk, said he had been reassured by police chiefs that ‘lessons had been learned’. ( Yes, yes, again ! )


Has the public the trust and confidence that thorough, objective and relevant reports may eventually emerge from the leading establishments , who eventually publish their accounts ?
Will this inordinate 'passage of time' mute peoples' memories, underrate the victims and disillusion the challengers ?

Don't forget these children, please.





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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Apr 20, 2013 11:01 am

cyfrifia wrote:The minimal and inadequate response of a so called serious case review will be very limited in what it deals with and how little and how shallowly it investigates.
I quote myself from the first page of this thread, last year. By looking at previous serious case reviews we can see that a serious case review is a chocolate teapot.

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Re: Serious Case Review (SCR) Rochdale.

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:33 pm

cyfrifia wrote:
cyfrifia wrote:The minimal and inadequate response of a so called serious case review will be very limited in what it deals with and how little and how shallowly it investigates.
I quote myself from the first page of this thread, last year. By looking at previous serious case reviews we can see that a serious case review is a chocolate teapot.


It was only in 2010 that the Government ordered the publication of all serious case reviews, so prior viewing of SCRs has been acutely restricted.

Last year The Times very successfully challenged Rotherham’s SCB’s redaction - blocked out with thick black lines and kept hidden – key information about grooming suspects, sexual abuse of children and details of different authorities’ involvement in RSCB ‘Child S’ serious case review. Perhaps and hopefully this was the start of ' a sea change.'





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