Fracking - for or against?

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Fracking - for or against?

Post  Chill37 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:50 pm


I read that Rochdale is sitting on potential vast stores of shale gas.

In the same report Cllr Lambert is on record as saying

"Any application that we should receive regarding fracking will be watched very closely" that in itself really worries me, considering the Planning Department doesn't really abide by any regulations as per the infamous TV programme and runs rough shod over democracy  But i am a bit worried that Cllr Lambert proclamination that Rochdale is promoted as one of the greenest Boroughs in the area- despite our green lungs being built on at every opportunity, will prevent much needed investment to our Town and all likelihood more jobs and training for all areas of the operation.

Yes it should be regulated and planned and monitored. but surely Rochdale should welcome investment.


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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  keithatrochdale on Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:59 pm

I wonder how the people suffering the investment that the asbestos brought to the town would feel about this.

We were told it was safe...................
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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Chill37 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:04 pm

keithatrochdale wrote:I wonder how the people suffering the investment that the asbestos brought to the town would feel about this.

We were told it was safe...................
Very true.

So should the whole new concept of fracking be overseen by the Goverment or leading experts and not just one Council Leader and/or Council Department that is on record as running roughshod over planning laws?


Or, take a look at how Fracking has taken off in the USA and learn from them?



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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:53 pm

Any gas from fracking would be fed into the European gas network, where it is distributed around Europe with prices according to market forces of supply and demand. Any idea of the UK being self sufficient in energy from fracking is illusory. Whether you want fracking or not really depends whether you want earthquakes or not, it might stimulate the building industry with underpinning and so on. Then we might need to import more building industry workers, they of course will want houses with gas central heating.

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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Chill37 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:02 pm

cyfrifia wrote:Any gas from fracking would be fed into the European gas network, where it is distributed around Europe with prices according to market forces of supply and demand. Any idea of the UK being self sufficient in energy from fracking is illusory. Whether you want fracking or not really depends whether you want earthquakes or not, it might stimulate the building industry with underpinning and so on. Then we might need to import more building industry workers, they of course will want houses with gas central heating.

Have Earthquakes been 100% linked then?  Just interested to know if they have or not.    I am aware any gas will be put back into the main system.  I was more over thinking of the investment at point of extraction such as the machines needed to extract the gas.  Or the workers etc, the supply chain and of course industry to serve the workers.  Still I can see a use for Kingsway Business Park looking at the map issued recenly on stores of Shale Gas in the area



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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Aug 28, 2013 7:11 pm

Whether fracking makes sense in national energy policy is one thing, whether it would bring short term benefit to a local economy is a different calculation. If Rochdale became a fracking centre, the local economy would benefit from selling beer, boots, sandwiches and 'services' to the workers, and if there is any local engineering that could make or supply spare parts.

The earthquake link is a matter of geological opinion. The earthquakes at Blackpool were arguably waiting to happen anyway, might have been just triggered by, rather than caused by, the fracking.

A fracking man on radio 4 said that for fracking to be economically viable in the UK, thousands of holes would have to be drilled. It's another of those do we want to destroy a bit more of our planet questions.

There might be other ways to solve problems, the more population we have, the greater the demand on natural resources. Really if we want to continue overcrowding this tiny island, it's unsustainable, fossil fuels and agricultural land are finite, the logic of a dense population is to use atomic power. Another option is to limit the population to a more sensible level and use sea-wave power.

That's just my amateur thoughts, which are probably just as good as an expert opinion, as it is all a matter of opinion.

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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Chill37 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 9:03 pm

Your view point is welcomed. I note there was two quakes over near Blackpool this past weekend, was any Fracking going on?

I think there would be more than beer and boots to be had/supplied. I read on the 'other' week a Town in USA where Fracking is happening already . House prices gone up with a whallop economy improved with supply chain etc. When you think about it there is still some industry in Rochdale that could support it. Compressor suppliers, Dunphy Combustion could find a place in this industry as well. Interesting point about thousands of holes. Not sure how big the equipment is for Fracking or is it the first drill rigs that are huge.

Bit like a modern day gold rush. Maybe after the initial rush there be, of course , a fall.

But yes I agree ALL options should be considered for powering our Island. Be it wind solar or Atomic.

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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Guest on Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:55 pm

Chill37 wrote: I note there was two quakes over near Blackpool this past weekend, was any Fracking going on?.
No.
Chill37 wrote: Not sure how big the equipment is for Fracking or is it the first drill rigs that are huge..
 Smile   Nodding Donkeys
50-year-old fracking site that makes a mockery of the Balcombe zealots: It's next to a nature reserve - and has fracked enough gas and oil to power 21,000 homes every day... with no complaints from locals.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396378/50-year-old-fracking-site-makes-mockery-Balcombe-zealots-Its-nature-reserve--fracked-gas-oil-power-21-000-homes-day--complaints-locals.html

Chill37 wrote:
But yes I agree ALL options should be considered for powering our Island.  Be it wind, solar or Atomic.
Snap.  Cllr Lambert seems to have engineered a local media diversion away from the more "sensitive" current issues in the borough Rolling Eyes .    A more measured response appears reported from the Rochdale MP.


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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Atlas on Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:08 am


The anti-fracking Luddites are just another band of non-entities disrupting for the sake of having a few weeks jazzing at the expense of the rest of society whose main aim is to survive and bring up their families within a reasonably safe and 'logical' society. Most haven't a clue and are there for the 'crack'.
As for earthquake in the Morecambe Bay areas - they are historical and have been happening for aeon's. One of the worst from the Irish Sea occurred in 1984 which was felt and did some small damage here in my area.
I remember it well. It damaged my new railway wall. Had nothing to do with fracking or oil wells or gas wells. It's all hype by the 'green' lobby who would have us back in caves given half a chance.
If Rochdale can benefit from gas exploration they should grab it with both hands. As for the analogy with asbestos. That's rubbish. There's no dumb and blind ignorance with gas exploration as there was with industrial lung deceases which were only discovered and diagnosed as medical science advanced.
I repeat again -he who dares wins. Stay in your ignorance if you wish and watch your future die with it.

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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Chill37 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 7:49 am

I doubt the more sensitive issues will ever go away.

But I think Cllr Lamberts comments are ill advised and without basis- I wonder what his qualifications are on Fracking to spout such a comment. i think just on this issue Cllr Lambert clearly doesnt give a monkeys about Rochdale and to ensure its survival.

Once again we have an opportunity to bring investment and jobs etc to Rochdale IF the reports are true about Shale gas under Rochdale. I believe if done properly and thought out correctly it may give Rochdale the boost it needs economically.


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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Chill37 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 8:27 am

Mojo Hill wrote:
Chill37 wrote: I note there was two quakes over near Blackpool this past weekend, was any Fracking going on?.
No.
Chill37 wrote: Not sure how big the equipment is for Fracking or is it the first drill rigs that are huge..
 Smile   Nodding Donkeys
50-year-old fracking site that makes a mockery of the Balcombe zealots: It's next to a nature reserve - and has fracked enough gas and oil to power 21,000 homes every day... with no complaints from locals.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2396378/50-year-old-fracking-site-makes-mockery-Balcombe-zealots-Its-nature-reserve--fracked-gas-oil-power-21-000-homes-day--complaints-locals.html

Chill37 wrote:
But yes I agree ALL options should be considered for powering our Island.  Be it wind, solar or Atomic.
Snap.  Cllr Lambert seems to have engineered a local media diversion away from the more "sensitive" current issues in the borough Rolling Eyes .    A more measured response appears reported from the Rochdale MP.

Thank you for that. So the landscape of Rochdale could be like the opening titles of Dallas with all the Nodding Donkeys!

I think these are even less intrusive than Wind turbines.

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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Dalelad on Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:03 am



I wouldn't have a problem with having these in the area. Having our own gas supply is far better than potentially being held to ransom by Russia. Mind you I imagine our bills wouldn't drop regardless!

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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:50 am

Most economic activity uses natural resources, land was cleared for farming. Forests felled for timber. Coal and iron etc mined and quarried to make the smoke and pollution of the industrial revolution. Wildlife killed off, rivers poisoned, and so forth.

Damage heals quicker in some cases than others. Farmland can become become wild again and forests regrown, much of that could be more or less healed within a few hundred years. The effects of mining that polluted the rivers rather longer.

Fracking is at the far end of the scale of how long it would take to heal, destroying structure of layers of geology, watercourses, the chemistry and biology within them is permanent damage to the natural world, which generally has consequences in the long run.

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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Chill37 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:10 am

cyfrifia wrote:Most economic activity uses natural resources, land was cleared for farming. Forests felled for timber. Coal and iron etc mined and quarried to make the smoke and pollution of the industrial revolution. Wildlife killed off, rivers poisoned, and so forth.

Damage heals quicker in some cases than others. Farmland can become become wild again and forests regrown, much of that could be more or less healed within a few hundred years. The effects of mining that polluted the rivers rather longer.

Fracking is at the far end of the scale of how long it would take to heal, destroying structure of layers of geology, watercourses, the chemistry and biology within them is permanent damage to the natural world, which generally has consequences in the long run.
Nuclear is also at that end of the scale.

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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:31 am

Nuclear and fracking are difficult to compare, but yes. Nuclear waste is so long term it's off the scale for all practical purposes. Most of the problems in nuclear power seem to come from poor management and politics. Running power stations well beyond sell by date, allowing scientists to make decisions that someone responsible should make, leaving taps open, getting wellingtons stuck in the cooling water system, miscalculating how high tsunami protection walls need to be. Potentially, nuclear power could be very effective, but it would need a highly evolved ape-like, peace loving, species of great wisdom and scientific knowledge to manage it, unfortunately human beings don't seem to.

A while back the government was offering huge payments for councils willing to house nuclear waste dumps, Rochdale seemed to miss out on that, but might have more luck with fracking.

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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Chill37 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:18 pm

As i have indicated, I am concerned that if Fracking is posied to land in Rochdale i fear one soul voice has piped up already putting the brakes on any possible benefits

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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:46 pm

Chill37 wrote:As i have indicated, I am concerned that if Fracking is posied to land in Rochdale i fear one soul voice has piped up already putting the brakes on any possible benefits
Guessing "posied" is not about a bunch of flowers and "one soul voice" is not about Marvin Gaye, it seems your concern is mainly about decision making process within Rochdale politics?

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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  johnb on Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:51 pm

Firstly, 'Nodding donkeys' have nothing to do with fracking - they belong to a simpler era of oil production where liquid oil was lifted from contigious reservoirs.

I work an an associated industry and I am broadly in favour. Contamination of groundwater with methane from the deep strata (beloved of U Tube) is not proven and is likely to be associated with badly completed wells, even if it is. There is contamination of groundwater from badly designed landfill and from abandoned coalmines (iand ncidentally risk of earth movement, usually called 'subsidence'). It's also worth remembering that the worst catastrophe with methane was the Abbeystead pumping station, and fracking had not even begun in UK then.

Thre will be disruption at the drilling sites, but this is only a quick and temporary process - land will be remediated afterwards. the production wellheads will be small and easily screened. It looks like a win/win solution as a transitional arrangement while we get really environmentally neautral power.

Incidentally, exactly what are Council Leader Lambert's qualifications to speak on this. I thought he was a teacher - mind, I suppose hot air from the uninformed is a form of energy production, however inefficient.
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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Chill37 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:42 pm

cyfrifia wrote:
Chill37 wrote:As i have indicated, I am concerned that if Fracking is posied to land in Rochdale i fear one soul voice has piped up already putting the brakes on any possible benefits
Guessing "posied" is not about a bunch of flowers and "one soul voice" is not about Marvin Gaye, it seems your concern is mainly about decision making process within Rochdale politics?
Some concern yes, but more IF this is taken as opportunity to help Rochdale re-generate. I am enjoying this debate and seeing everyones viewpoints on this very important Technology.  It needs discussing fully and at all levels without throw away and un educated comments by those in charge. It seems to me that other people are of the same thinking.

Thank you also John B for the 'nodding donkey' aspect.

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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  teamplayer2 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:08 pm


I am against fracking and hope it never happens.

We cannot accept losing more of our country side to pollution and over development. Enough is enough.



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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  johnb on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:51 pm



So how does fracking loose us countryside?


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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Atlas on Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:10 am



You have to have a reasonable grasp of the subject teamplayer2 before making such comments. I would submit that a wind turbine destroys more of the countryside than does a fracking site and costs more, and doesn't attend to the needs of the society in which we live and that's without the far bigger 'blot' on the landscape it produces.           Emotion, fear or ignorance is no rationale worthy of consideration. Wink



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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  teamplayer2 on Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:59 pm

johnb wrote:So how does fracking loose us countryside?

Are you kidding me johnb!

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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Prudence Tempered on Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:55 pm

teamplayer2 wrote:
johnb wrote:So how does fracking loose us countryside?
Are you kidding me johnb!
No, he isn't.  He wants to hear you explain how fracking loses us countryside.

So would I.


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Re: Fracking - for or against?

Post  Atlas on Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:01 am

And so would I. Fascinating - all agog is what I am - - - ergo -- ???????????????Rolling Eyes 
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