Syria we don't need another war!

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Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Jeanie on Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:54 pm

My view for what it is worth is a definite "NO" lessons should be learnt from past interference, More innocent people will be killed stay out of it Britain and calm down Cameron !
Why do these politicians have to get so damn power crazy Mad 
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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Poppyanna555 on Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:29 pm

As far as politics is concerned, I admit to being totally uninformed but, my gut feeling is NO.
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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Hinch on Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:12 am



A sad day for British politics. A total shambles for all three main parties. I too am against war but the whole parliamentary debate made us look weak, indecisive and lacking in integrity or moral direction.

Still, after Blair's entry into Iraq in an illegal way, you can understand the reluctance of politicians to get embroiled in another fiasco.

The TV pictures last night were terrible. The UN needs to ramp up the diplomatic effort big style.


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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:14 pm

Hinch wrote:"shambles for all three main parties"

"weak, indecisive and lacking in integrity or moral direction."
Perhaps as well to have some semblance of transparency, our politics has been the shambles described for many a year, covered, to an extent, with presentation and bluff.

The UK is not in fit state to be world policeman, we don't have the moral high ground or direction, and may not have the military independence and 'depth' to perform that role successfully. To do it badly usually leads to more problems.

The best we could do is, whatever is possible, and that may involve cyber and high tech attacks and interventions, to prevent chemical weapons being used again anywhere, and everything possible to bring whoever gave the orders for nerve gas to be used to justice.

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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Chill37 on Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:32 pm

I always thought the USA was the Worlds Policeman with the UK as its Deputy.

I see some aspect of cyber warfare.  But I doubt it will stop all potential future use of Chemical Warfare in Syria.


To be honest Syria and how to deal with Assad is a total nightmare.  As news channels have reported today, the shadow of Tony Blair's lies of the WMDs in iraq has cast a long shadow over future issues such as Syria.



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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  johnb on Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:34 pm

Firing off the odd cruise missile or several is not going to do anything worthwhile.

Regime change is not an option since we are far from certain whether the oposition would be any better than what is already there and to be honest, I don't think even Assad is so stupid or mad as to use chemical weapons the day the UN observers arrive.

It would have been good to see some statesman like behaviour and comment from the mother of parliaments - but I suppose no that is far too much to hope for.  I am particularly depressed by Milliband's actions to party politicise the whole affair.


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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Atlas on Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:01 am

No we should not become embroiled in this civil war which to all intents and purposes is on the one hand a fight against despotism and dictatorship, on another a fight for democracy, on another a fight for power and on another a fight for Islam. Too many factions of dubious intent hover around the periphery of this conflict few of which seem to fit our ways of culture or politics. The outcome, whatever it may be, will be terrible regardless of who wins - which I might add will be nobody.
However - no one has so far made a case against the flaunting of International Law which if allowed to continue could easily proliferate into something much more serious. One cannot ignore the the area of conflict or the neighbouring states and what may happen if 'anyone' involved in this conflict takes the view that 'anything' goes. It's a bad way to do business to allow your neighbour to think nobody cares what he gets up to or upon whom it may have a disastrous effect. This question of the use of 'gas'/ 'chemical' weapons is a step in the wrong direction and 'needs' sorting out. A Warning from History -. I leave it there.
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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Jeanie on Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:46 pm

Ongoing and very worrying ! It's who do you believe ? they are ALL power crazy rather that sit round a table face to face they just want to score points against each other and it is the innocent who suffer !
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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  teamplayer2 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:02 pm

War had been like that since recorded history Jeanie. I think the general public does not want another war and seeing dead soldiers returning from another war that has no end. Anyway what changed in the previous wars in the middle east! Nothing and all for nothing. All for the ego of the politicians.

Of course as soon as Tony Blair opened his mouth and said to go into Syria it was bound to fail and go to a no vote. We all remember Tony Blair going to war telling us there was weapons of mass destruction.
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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Chill37 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:06 pm

For which Tony Blair should be tried as a war criminal.


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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  teamplayer2 on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:16 pm

I agree Chill37.
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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Atlas on Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:38 am

The latest vote in the British Parliament has, I suspect, had some effect amongst those members of the NATO Alliance who may have wanted a 'hard' response against the chemical weapons massacre. There has been a 'drawing back' of any knee-jerk response whilst the 'problem' is looked at again. France, who seems to be the most verbose, continues to make noises and appears to be somewhat 'taken aback' that the USA and the UK haven't lashed out willy-nilly as has been their tactics in passed years. I suspect that France will now try to influence others to join her - having failed the first time around. One wonders at the motives here?
The USA (the political bunch) were also somewhat taken aback. We live in interesting times -Wink Wink Question 
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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Chill37 on Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:12 am

Well it looks like Mr Obama has the backing of Congress.

As I have said, it wil be interesting to see what happens wen the UN report is issued as to the source of the Chemical Weapons.


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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Atlas on Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:53 am

I suspect it will confirm that which is already known. It's very unlikely that the so called 'Opposition' managed to smuggle a rocket battery complete with all the equipment required into Assad's area of operations , fired them off then walked away without anyone noticing. It beggars belief. What should be realised is the watch that is being kept over Syria on a minute by minute basis, so much so that these rockets were tracked from the moment of launch and monitored, is being done by spy satellites. Not that anyone wants to admit it - if you follow my drift. It's not the fact that Assad's military used them but the idiotic belief they wouldn't be tracked that stupifies the intelligence????Rolling Eyes 
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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Chill37 on Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:16 am

Atlas wrote:I suspect it will confirm that which is already known. It's very unlikely that the so called 'Opposition' managed to smuggle a rocket battery complete with all the equipment required into Assad's area of operations , fired them off then walked away without anyone noticing. It beggars belief. What should be realised is the watch that is being kept over Syria on a minute by minute basis, so much so that these rockets were tracked from the moment of launch and monitored, is being done by spy satellites. Not that anyone wants to admit it - if you follow my drift. It's not the fact that Assad's military used them but the idiotic belief they wouldn't be tracked that stupifies the intelligence????Rolling Eyes 
So the eye in the sky and all the spy planes keep an eye on Syria. Then one day Assad launches again. Then what?

We stil have the issue of what to do.


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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Atlas on Fri Sep 06, 2013 1:08 am

In the event of 'having' to do 'something' (which is absolutely without question) it should not, if possible, exacerbate an already impossible situation for those people who have realised that this 'civil war' cannot end for the general good. Whatever the final outcome in Syria it will be many years( and many dead) before a true peace with freedoms and justice prevail. Too many cooks. Too many differences.
International justice is all very well providing it can be policed in a manner which produces a true justice. Whereby the outcome is likely to produce yet more mayhem and injustice, it seems irrational to pursue with any justifiable satisfaction.
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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Chill37 on Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:29 am

Atlas wrote:In the event of 'having' to do 'something' (which is absolutely without question) it should not, if possible, exacerbate an already impossible situation for those people who have realised that this 'civil war' cannot end for the general good. Whatever the final outcome in Syria it will be many years( and many dead) before a true peace with freedoms and justice prevail. Too many cooks. Too many differences.
International justice is all very well providing it can be policed in a manner which produces a true justice. Whereby the outcome is likely to produce yet more mayhem and injustice, it seems irrational to pursue with any justifiable satisfaction.
Nice answer, reminds me of a politician answer.

But I am sorry, but the question I posed has not been answered.  

We put up spy planes and spy satelites and the like as per a suggestion on here  so we all know what Assad has had for lunch.  Then he launches another Chemical or Biological Weapon against his people .  We spot it.  Then what?
If we do nothing we exacerbate the situation by making innocent people suffer a horrific death by gas or germs. Assad laughs at us or more over the Global communuity and continues to kill people with out fear of reprisal.


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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Atlas on Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:30 am

Exactly my point Chill37. But getting hot under the collar about it and then making matters even worse is a not a logical approach to the answer of which in this instance 'there isn't one'.
Let's say we blast him with a couple of small nukes. Hundreds more die - and we probably miss him and his cohorts entirely? So that didn't do any good did it? Er - let's condemn him in all the halls of righteousness throughout the known world? Does he care a fig? - Of course not. So that didn't do any good either did it?
So we are now out of options -. Er - hmm. Well couldn't we - - ? Hmmm? I know. We will poison his whiskey?
And now you've just murdered his taster. You want 'justice' then find me an answer which doesn't involve the killing of anyone else other than Assad or his cohorts and then we can get a little closer to a rational answer to the problem of seeing justice done. That's always assuming it was them that done the dastardly deed in the first place????????????????
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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Chill37 on Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:20 pm


I'm not hot under the collar, far from it.

A rather simple reply this one.  I think the strikes are to prevent use of chemical weapons.  Few Tomahawk Smart Weapsons or high incendiary devices to burn the chemical/germ weapons.  No need for Nukes of any sort.

Ultimatley  get Assad up at the Hague and try him as a war criminal.  No need for killing him really.

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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Atlas on Sun Sep 08, 2013 12:37 am

I doubt, even with the technology that the Yanks have, that a 'strike' against his stockpiles or transits can be precise enough as to be 'safe'. For that one would still need 'boots on the ground' and quiet 'boots' as well.
There is no guarantee that Assad will lose this one. In fact everything is still in his favour at this juncture. So no 'Hague' jobbie either.
Many more are going to die. Many many more are going to suffer. The 'camps' will get larger and may be in existence for many years to come - as with the Palestinians -. This was never going to be an easy one. Had it have been so efforts to topple the Assad family would have taken place some years ago.
History warns us and we take no notice. In fact most don't know (or care) regarding it. Man's folly. Nothing changes.
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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Chill37 on Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:39 am



Yes, many many more wil suffer, down to the Global Community in action and dithering.

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Re: Syria we don't need another war!

Post  Atlas on Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:29 am




Syria was never an easy option. Too many influential friends in high places, a fruitful and willing marketplace and a sound bulwark against Islamic extremism. It served its purpose for almost everyone, as much as one might have despised the regime and its torturers. Nothing good will come from what is happening at the present time and if things really go pear-shaped a great deal of harm may well be the result. The very best one might hope for is a diplomatic settlement along the lines of a 'Green-line' and a long interlude of an uneasy peace until such times as the area discovers and utilises some sanity. Perhaps fifty to a hundred years might make a difference. But not in my lifetime
.Sad Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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