What would YOU do in these circumstances?

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What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:12 pm

Things go on that make life very difficult, like this story for instance, the question is, what can you DO in these circumstances to sort it out and make people behave themselves? Throw the bikes on the track in front of the train perhaps? What would YOU do? Any non-violent hints and tips on how to deal with these real life problems would be welcome

Quote: “We couldn’t understand how, considering the train was virtually empty, the guard could be so callous as to leave two old people stranded at a remote railway station in such inclement weather."

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/10715983.Colne_pair_stranded_as_conductor_refused_them_____despite_arriving_by_train_/?ref=ar

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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  Atlas on Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:26 am



The couples ages becomes irrelevent in the face of rules and regulations and thus has to be discounted from the argument.
Firstly, the couple should have been aware of the rail company's rules - especially regarding luggage - which is what the bikes became once put aboard. Knowing the two bikes only rule they would have had to take their chances. Not knowing is not an excuse.

Now you want the moral argument -. The conductor was a pillock and if employed by me would have been given a lesson in compassion and general relationships, especially the one that goes - a kindness would have reflected well on the company and thus enhanced the company's relationships with the general public. Do it again and your fired - twit.

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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  Hinch on Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:10 am



They deserve throwing off for describing themselves as 'old' at 64!


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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:52 am

It seems these cyclists started their journey on a Mersey Rail train, and tried to return on a Northern Rail train. The linkage between these organisations seems to underlie this situation.

Mr. Birkett and his Chinese wife found themselves suddenly and unexpectedly refused to get on the train, which was fairly empty, and so stranded them, far from home, in a difficult situation.

Separated from their companions and unprepared for such a journey, without maps, they cycled 16 miles along unfamiliar roads in the pouring rain, vowing never to use Northern Rail services again.

Would feigning a heart attack have got a better result? Would throwing something in front of the train, a wastebin or whatever and using the delay to get the bicycles on the train have worked? Using a bike lock and chain to attach himself to the guard might have led to a solution.

Refusing to ever use the trains again is no answer. Mr. Birkett probably had very little time to think before the train left, on reflection, is there anything he could have done?

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/10715983.Colne_pair_stranded_as_conductor_refused_them_____despite_arriving_by_train_/?ref=ar

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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  Old Regulator on Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:57 pm


'Would feigning a heart attack have got a better result? Would throwing something in front of the train, a wastebin or whatever, and using the delay to get the bicycles on the train have worked?' Using a bike lock and chain to attach himself to the guard might have led to a solution. Refusing to ever use the trains again is no answer. Mr. Birkett probably had very little time to think before the train left, on reflection, is there anything he could have done?”


Certainly none of the above.  I sometimes wonder at the capacity of some for only seeing one side of a situation.


What they could, and should have done, is make themselves aware of the policy of carriage of cycles on trains.  The train may have been empty at Burscough  Bridge, but could soon fill up with a mixture of luggage carriers, prams, people dressed in their best clothes, I’m sure dirt and oil from cycles stored in the only place possible on this type of train, the door vestibules, would be gladly accepted by those coming into contact with the bikes, the owners having abandoned them to go and sit further down the carriage.

I often wonder why on a cycling holiday they don’t use cycles which fold down into a container no bigger than a large briefcase, like the lady who works in Manchester and lives in the hills around Hebden Bridge does.

Next time you see a full sized cycle, times it by 4 and think how much space that would take up.

I know not all cyclist are selfish, but far too many of them seem to use their bikes as battering rams to force entry onto a train, even at the expense of ‘trying’ to queue jump in front of a guide dog owner, he did not know that my 6 foot 4 ins son was just behind me, so red face for him and the guard told him to wait for the next service.

By the way they could have changed at Wigan Wallgate and crossed over to Wigan North Western (a shorter distance than the 2 Burscough Bridge Stations) where around 6 trains an hour go to Preston, many inter city ones.



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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:10 am


Thankyou for your thoughts, Old Regulator. As you explain, it is folly to attempt to use a train without first studying about railways, and developing a thorough and comprehensive understanding of rules, regulations and practices which may or may not be applied in different circumstances by different train operators in various places and times. This couple may have been better to spend their holiday studying all that.

They got on a train with bikes and assumed they could return with them, very silly, but the question is, having landed themselves in this situation, and we all find ourselves in difficult situations at one time or another, due to over optimism, ignorance or other human frailties. Looking back at situations, we may think, why didn't I - whatever.

Feeling they had no option but cycling sixteen miles along unknown roads in the pouring rain without maps or a planned route, and when tired, they were in a dangerous situation. Cycling in such circumstances, especially for the elderly, is hazardous, with the spray from lorries and unfriendly car drivers to cope with.



Mr. Birkett will never use a Northern Rail train again, will probably avoid the bike/train combination altogether. Is there absolutely nothing he could have done to save himself and his wife from the distress and danger they were placed in?


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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  Chill37 on Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:17 am

I can't think of anything.

Can you Cyfrifia?

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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:58 am

No, but there may be someone who can see something that could have been done differently. The main snag seems to be lack of time to do anything as the train left, but maybe armed with some item of information or a bright idea, someone else in a similar situation in the future might.

There are train enthusiasts, and then there are passengers, the gulf between the two is wide, they see these situations from very different points of view.

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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  Old Regulator on Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:05 am


" Cyfrifia: “Thankyou for your thoughts, Old Regulator.  As you explain, it is folly to attempt to use a train without first studying about railways, and developing a thorough and  comprehensive understanding of rules, regulations and practices which may or may not be applied in different circumstances by different train operators in various places and times.”


Ah!  The old ‘exaggerate’ ploy.  Not at all I merely point out that as in most public transport modes if carrying, or wheeling, goods, it makes sense to check, as for air travel, now whose exaggerating?  I feel sure these travellers checked the times of the trains so maybe should have check the  carriage of cycles.

“ This couple may have been better to spend their holiday studying all that.”

No they should take reasonable care to travel prepared for their journey beforehand and enjoyed their ‘cycling holiday’ in Southport.

“They got on a train with bikes and assumed they could return with them,”

No they appear to have got a train from Southport into Liverpool then to Ormskirk to Burscough ‘Junction’ not Bridge, and 2 plus 2 cycles got on the Preston train at Burscough Junction.  Now this to me seems to hint at a modicum of planning the train part of the journey.

“ very silly, but the question is, having landed themselves in this situation, and we all find ourselves in difficult situations at one time or another, due to over optimism, ignorance or other human frailties. Looking back at situations, we may think, why didn't I - whatever.”

I do not respond to rhetoric.

“Feeling they had no option but cycling sixteen miles along unknown roads in the pouring rain without maps or a planned route, and when tired, they were in a dangerous situation. Cycling in such circumstances, especially for the elderly, is hazardous, with the spray from lorries and unfriendly car drivers to cope with.”

I’ll ignore the patronising tone.   They are on a cycling holiday so one could hazard a guess that, despite their advanced years (see Hinch above), they, not me, should be well aware of the ‘joys’ of wet roads in a county noted for rain.   Using your original rant on breaking the law, throwing things in front of a train, would you like to tell lorry drivers and car drivers to halt when approaching cyclists, who never never ride on footpaths do they?

“Mr. Birkett will never use a Northern Rail train again, will probably avoid the bike/train combination altogether. Is there absolutely nothing he could have done to save himself and his wife from the distress and danger they were placed in?”

See my suggestions above, which you seem to dismiss as outrageous in the age of the world wide web.  I note the time of your post so will make allowances for tiredness and emotion.


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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:26 am

Thankyou Old Regulator,

On their webite, Northern Trains say:

"We regard cyclists our natural allies and want to encourage more cycling journeys to and from our stations. We will always have constraints on the number of cycles we can carry on our trains ? the normal limit is two per train ? but we want to create better facilities at our stations, including opportunities for both tourism and daily commuting trips.

We have our own Cycle Users Forum which is administered by Sustrans. It brings together cycling organisations, local authorities and ourselves to look at ways of improving our facilities for cyclists.

Our Cycling Strategy was published in March 2007 and won us the 'Train Operator of the Year' award in the 2007 Cycle-Rail Awards. We have much more to do, but we hope we have made a start."

http://www.northernrail.org/page/7/45820

The question marks are a direct quote.

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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  Chill37 on Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:33 pm

Stil at least trains allow bikes unlike Metrolink.

scratch 


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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  Old Regulator on Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:53 pm

Chill37 wrote:Stil at least trains allow bikes unlike Metrolink.

scratch 
and never will hopefully.  trams are a short journey duration mode of transport, mind you i would not like to walk the distance, and get very full with working folk off to the office, cycles lined up for boarding would block platforms and inside areas of trams where standing passengers travel.  cycles are road vehicles, what next motor bikes on trams?  I hear what you say Chill but a line must be drawn, and is drawn by regulation,  when it comes to what can and cannot be carried on public transport.  by all means put cycle storage at stops and stations to give choice.

I kid you not a man with an extension ladder was left at a stop, I read it so it must be true! (smile)



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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  Chill37 on Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:36 pm

Im surprised they let a ladder on the platforms as when I got the safety leaflets ladders werent allowed near the lines with out permission!! Laughing 

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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  teamplayer2 on Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:23 pm

scratch
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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  Old Regulator on Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:48 pm


Chill37 wrote:Im surprised they let a ladder on the platforms as when I got the safety leaflets ladders werent allowed near the lines with out permission!! Laughing 
what happened to my ladder comment? no wonder TP is scratching

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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:49 pm

One can never be sure what the rules and regulations are about railways, especially when the website has it's own question marks? http://www.northernrail.org/page/7/45820

We don't live in a predictable and orderly world, and need to be prepared for both ourselves and other people to make mistakes.

Some people have the knack of adapting to changing and unexpected circumstances, coming up with novel solutions that work. Others have to cycle home in the rain.

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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  Atlas on Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:04 am

And after all that I will repeat what would have been the 'sensible' solution. That of a less zealous ( I have the power of God guard and 'rules is rules' - so there) employee and more of a discerning, intelligent good employee who should have been thinking of the couples predicament and the rail company's reputation. Sometimes we all have to 'bend' a little. You know it makes sense.Wink Rolling Eyes
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Re: What would YOU do in these circumstances?

Post  Chill37 on Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:59 am

Old Regulator wrote:
Chill37 wrote:Im surprised they let a ladder on the platforms as when I got the safety leaflets ladders werent allowed near the lines with out permission!! Laughing 
What happened to my ladder comment?  no wonder TP is scratching

I can still see it.



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