Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

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Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  teamplayer2 on Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:49 pm

It has been reported in the media that the National Secular Society wants to stop the Christian prayer on  Remembrance Sunday as they say that the UK is no longer a Christian Country and is not inclusive enough.

Who do they think they are! If the story is true.
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Re: Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  Hinch on Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:42 pm




I've even heard the NCS insinuate that some of our brave service men and women who laid down their lives for king and country were not actually practising Christians. And worse, they suggest that many of our local and national leaders who dust off their black overcoats every year and stand there in freezing conditions around our cenotaphs may not be bone fide Christians either and are just mouthing the words.

How very dare they!

Surely they are forgetting the words inscribed on every SS man's dagger; God Is With Us.



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Re: Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:35 pm

The same national Secular Society has instructed lawyers to challenge the Royal Coronation Ceremony, saying the country has changed out of all recognition since the last coronation and the UK should now have a non-religious ceremony.



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Re: Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  Guest on Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:29 pm

TP2: There was a discussion thread already running on here this morning entitled Poppy Day Rememberance. (sp Rolling Eyes  ) Why start another one ? 


: -  http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/83610/rochdale-stands-still-for-remembrance-sunday

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Re: Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  johnb on Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:38 pm




For those of us who find prayers to any God as we think of the senseless carnage at best a bad joke, any change is now timely.

It is easy to see world war as proof positive of God's absence. Praying to any god in the circumstances is hypocrisy.

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Re: Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  Atlas on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:29 am



Come come johnb. Hypocrisy it may be in your eyes but surely that rests with the individual who may be a true believer in his/her religion and who may wish to beseech their deity to eradicate the slaughter. I don't believe in any religion whatsoever but I would most certainly fight for the right of the individual to have their freedom of religious choice and to practice it, always and providing it harms no other person in the process.
The choice of Christian prayer at the cenotaph should rest with those who attend. It isn't necessary to join in. One can give one's respects at any time day or night without having to 'join in' with any religious clap-trap.

As I said on a previous post - Poppy Day is NOT a religious event - it's a commemoration towards those who died fighting for their countrymen and their freedoms. As for extremists - they are just as stupid and dangerous as all others.

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Re: Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:38 am

The senseless mass carnage of war does make people reflect on where God or the idea of God comes into it all. Remembering and making a ceremony of remembrance for the millions who have died in these wars is a valuable thing to do, but doesn't depend on what religion or belief anyone has. Let those who want to, pray to their God, and those who don't, think as they will.

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Re: Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  Atlas on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:45 am

drunken Hic. I'll drink t' that. Hic.bounce bounce bounce 
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Re: Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  teamplayer2 on Mon Nov 11, 2013 8:44 am

Looking through the Humanist website it looks as though they are on some sort of Anti- Christian agenda. There should be room for everyone and all faiths or whatever way you wish to remember those who gave their lives in the service of the country.

Some of their wording on the Christian faith is somewhat one way. They do have a right to an opinion and I am not saying any of the Christian religions are perfect. I just think it was the timing was all wrong though the Humanist do not seem to have a go at the right or wrongs of the Islam and Hindu or an other religions. Perhaps they do not dare mention other faiths but just appear to pick the Christian religion as an easy target.
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Re: Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  Hinch on Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:09 am

The Humanists on an anti-Christian agenda? Surely not.

You'll be saying next that the British Secular Society are irreligious.

Perhaps we could replace the traditional Remembrance Day service with a gathering of the populace wearing tie-died shirts singing Kumbaya to pan-pipe accompaniment?.

Wars and remembrance have always taken place held together with a heady mixture of religious glue.

I think Bob Dylan has it about right with God on Our Side. I love the War memorials you see like the one in St Chad's churchyard with the sword juxtaposed on the cross.

I don't personally find anything basically wrong in people using faith and religion as a vehicle for remembering the dead and honouring their sacrifice. What I find less convincing is the combination of religion and jingoistic nationalism to celebrate war.

Onward Christian Soldiers chaps with the cross of Jesus, going on before...

Hokum!
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Re: Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:14 am

Can any religion have anything convincing to say about the slaughter of war ?

Bhuddism says "Put down the butcher's knife."  We may remember how many Tibetans were slaughtered in the Chinese invasion of Tibet, estimates around six million. Tibet had a bhuddist culture of non-violence, no standing army, very few weapons. The Chinese with mainly only rifles and artillery were able to systematically advance through Tibet killing and destroying.

The question is, in what situations is being armed and prepared to defend or intervene going to lead to less loss of life and suffering? We have seen what happens when the wrong decisions are taken. Such questions need to be addressed by people of all religions and none.

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Re: Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  johnb on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:32 pm

So take the Quaker view and remember in silence - still keep the public act but keep the words internalised.
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Re: Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:47 pm

There is something to be said for not saying very much on occasion.



Very interesting history about the various religious groups, Quakers, Shakers, Mormons, etc who started in Lancashire and Manchester area, but moved over to the USA, or, started in the USA and recruited from Lancashire.


http://everycityisasmalltown.blogspot.co.uk/2012_04_01_archive.html

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Re: Do away with prayers at Cenotaph

Post  Atlas on Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:23 am

affraid drunken I'm quite happy for the delusional to leave whenever they feel they have a need. Saves arguments.
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