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Poppy Day rememberance

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Post  cyfrifia Thu Nov 07, 2013 10:00 am

Politicians who send people to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan etc. must have an unrealistic understanding of the state of this nation, and of the consequences.

"we also see a lot of clients with pre-service childhood or early adult trauma. Often they have multiple and complex issues, with high rates of offending behaviour, alcohol and drug use, and long term health conditions."

The problems of our own country need sorting out instead of complicating and worsening those problems by sending troops to foreign lands. Blessed are the peacemakers.

Military Veterans’ Service http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/83525/more-than-1000-veterans-seek-mental-health-support

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Post  Guest Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:15 am


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Post  cyfrifia Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:30 am



Perhaps more effort could be put into explaining to the Muslims in the UK what the real meaning of Poppy Day remembrance is.



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Post  Dalelad Thu Nov 07, 2013 12:24 pm





It's a bit hard when they see the British Army invading Muslim countries though. I find it entirely understandable that many don't want to give this their support .



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Post  cyfrifia Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:19 pm

Yes, you can see how it's happened, similar to the Union Jack being seen as a racist symbol. Sending armies to fight in other countries is an iffy thing to do, but this is not the fault of all the people who have died in war that are remembered with poppies, or those who remember them. The intention is to remember and honor them, and in their memory to renew the desire for peace, and for an end to war and slaughter.

Like a lot of British traditions, they are rooted in past events and history, and the ideas that result from them, largely unknown to those from other countries and entirely different cultures who come here as immigrants.

If Muslims properly understand the meaning of the poppy symbol, and still don't like it, that's up to them, but as things stand many of them probably have very little interest in, or idea of what it's really about, so some information and education for them might improve that situation.

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Post  Guest Thu Nov 07, 2013 11:30 pm

cyfrifia wrote:
Like a lot of British traditions, they are rooted in past events and history, and the ideas that result from them, largely unknown to those from other countries and entirely different cultures who come here as immigrants.

If Muslims properly understand the meaning of the poppy symbol, and still don't like it, that's up to them, but as things stand many of them probably have very little interest in, or idea of what it's really about, so some information and education for them might improve that situation.


We’re generations down-the-line since the end of World War 1 and hardly talking about a present ‘wave’ of immigrants.  


This week the radical Islamist Anjem Choudray denounced supporters of Remembrance Sunday as hypocrites, bootlickers and sycophants and said Muslims who sell or wear poppies will " burn in hellfire tomorrow."  It seems he is always good for extremist quotes – grist to the media mill of sensation revenue


Thousands of Muslims serving in the British army were killed in the First World War, which is widely known across communities of Pakistani and Bangladeshi backgrounds, who comprise about two-thirds of the Muslim population in Britain.


Education?     Amongst other organisations, The Islamic Society of Britain has urged more British Muslims to wear poppies and support tributes to the war dead, commenting that millions of Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs and people of other minority faiths have served in the British Armed Forces across two World Wars, facing down the hatred of Nazism and helping keep Britain and other lands safe in dire hours of need.’


Aren’t the two World Wars in our secondary schools' mainstream education curriculum (History) ?   scratch


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Post  Atlas Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:56 am

Mojo Hill wrote:
This week the radical Islamist Anjem Choudray denounced supporters of Remembrance Sunday as hypocrites, bootlickers and sycophants and said Muslims who sell or wear poppies will " burn in hellfire tomorrow."  It seems he is always good for extremist quotes – grist to the media mill of sensation revenue

Mr Choudray is not an ignorant man and fully understands the Remembrance Sunday events and the wearing of the poppy and what it signifies.  He is however a very dangerous man in his quest for power and influence and very adept at oratory ( as were others such as Hitler, Mussolini etc etc), which he uses to further his own personal standing and 'control' over others. The quest for Islam and Islamic States is purely yet another blight on the world's populations and together with it's radicalism will bring nothing but grief, destruction and horror to countless millions to the benefit of but those few who espouse the warping of yet another (once) pure and peaceful religion.  But such is the way of 'man'.
Sad Rolling Eyes Mad


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Post  cyfrifia Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:14 am

Mojo Hill wrote:We’re generations down-the-line since the end of World War 1 and hardly talking about a present ‘wave’ of immigrants.  
We are a long way from the end of world war one, as result of which the Poppy Day Remembrance was established. The massive slaughter of the trench warfare and the effect that had on Britain was formative of British society and ideas.

We are not talking about a recent wave of immigrants, but the original waves of immigrants that came into the north of England are continually added to, a mix of more established and recent arrivals, none of which, for various reasons, have ever really joined in with English society and culture enough to share it's underlying feelings, beliefs, emotions and attitudes.

Atlas wrote: the warping of yet another (once) pure and peaceful religion.
The idea that Islam was originally a peaceful religion does not fit with the history,

Islam has been 'Jihadist' from the start, with war against the unbeliever built into it. More socially peaceful aspects of Islam developed later.

Rather the opposite of Christianity, which started off non-violent, but became warlike in medieval times as it became politicised.

Religion, power and politics all exist in and share the same space, inevitably become intertwined. The message of Poppy Day Remembrance puts emphasis on developing ways for nations and religions to co-exist peacefully, which is not easy, but in the face of the mass slaughter of total war, is the best hope.

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Post  Atlas Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:28 am

cyfrifia wrote:
Islam has been 'Jihadist' from the start, with war against the unbeliever built into it. More socially peaceful aspects of Islam developed later.
It was to this  more social and peaceful aspects my (once) referred and to that which must have our respect as with all religions. As a non-believer in any religion, or fairies at the bottom of my garden, or ghosts in the empty chapel next door, I give no weight or corner when formulating laws for the governance of our societies and thus I am never prepared (as in the burka/niqab dispute) to allow such argument past the post.
The English tradition of 'Poppy Day' is sacrosanct in our present culture and remains as such. It has nothing whatsoever to do with religion/s. I find it sad that some Moslem's cannot bring themselves to take part considering the tens of thousands that died in the world wars fighting alongside our ancestors to keep their freedoms - which I might add historically hurried in their own country's freedoms far quicker than would have been the case had the wars not taken place when they did. I suppose one could say 'An ill wind etc '. Too much stems from ignorance. It is that which keeps man in the 'dark ages'.

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Post  Hinch Sat Nov 09, 2013 8:00 am

Perhaps we could make the wearing of the Poppy on burkas obligatory?
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Post  Atlas Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:43 am

I'll drink to that.Wink Wink Wink Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Very Happy Very Happy 
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Post  Guest Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:37 am

cyfrifia wrote:
If Muslims properly understand the meaning of the poppy symbol, and still don't like it, that's up to them, but as things stand many of them probably have very little interest in, or idea of what it's really about, so some information and education for them might improve that situation.


Councillors were known as civic dignitaries / public figures, I believe.  Rochdale has quite a number of Muslim councillors, who were very notable by their absences at the Cenotaph yesterday. We've even got a Portfolio holder for Strengthening Communities in the council Cabinet.    TOSH !  



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Post  Spartacus Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:49 pm

Mojo Hill wrote:
cyfrifia wrote:
If Muslims properly understand the meaning of the poppy symbol, and still don't like it, that's up to them, but as things stand many of them probably have very little interest in, or idea of what it's really about, so some information and education for them might improve that situation.
Councillors were known as civic dignitaries / public figures, I believe.  Rochdale has quite a number of Muslim councillors, who were very notable by their absences at the Cenotaph yesterday. We've even got a Portfolio holder for Strengthening Communities in the council Cabinet.    TOSH !  
Yesterday was the first time my husband and I were absent from the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday since either of us can remember. Both of us would have been there if we could but unfortunately, due to my husband's medical condition, it was impossible.  



Every elected member of this Borough who has an ounce of decency and respect for the Sacrifices made should have been there.   Remembrance Sunday is not about war, religion, race or political opinions. When people chose to ignore that fact and turn it into anything else they are, in my opinion, sticking two fingers up to the peace we enjoy at the expense of those who paid for it.



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Post  Poppyanna555 Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:32 pm




I totally agree...well said Spartacus!
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Post  cyfrifia Mon Nov 11, 2013 7:27 pm

Is this something new? Is there a history of muslim councillors ever going to Remembrance day? Perhaps some did a long time ago?

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Post  Guest Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:00 pm

cyfrifia wrote:Is this something new? Is there a history of muslim  councillors ever going to Remembrance day? Perhaps some did a long time ago?



Speculative questions about Rochdale's historic Remembrance Day services, made from your own Todmorden base, show that you have not personally been practically involved and remain unaware of this town's changing political dynamics - and its lead players / agendas, at different recent years.

You only need to do a minimal internet search for your answers.  I'll save you the time, as you're probably not familiar with our Muslim councillors' appearances, names, visage, etcetera.     Look at just two of RO's Remembrance Day 2012 photos - No 28 shows the councillor who holds the Portfolio for Strengthening Communities, while No 31 shows four others from 4 central town Wards in part of the ' public figure ' line-up
.  
   http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/article/75151/remembrance-sunday-rochdale-pays-its-respects    

If local dignitaries were unable to attend because of unavoidable, other commitments, they could always send a personal representative in lieu.      

The TOSH! remains.




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Post  Atlas Tue Nov 12, 2013 12:16 am



I do have to say I don't understand the Asian community leaders and Councillors boycotting or simply refusing to attend - if they were able? I am assuming that in the countries of their ancestors - India, Malaysia, Thailand, Burma just to name a few they must have some form of commemerating their war dead??
They must be aware (one assumes) that Poppy Day is simply that and nothing else?
So why the reticence ???? Perhaps one of them might enlighten such as me as to the reasons ????????Shocked
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