Rape case complainant kills herself

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Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Hinch on Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:12 am




http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/85203/investigation-launched-after-womans-death

Very tragic case by the sound of it. RIP Tracy Shelvin. Reported on BBC news today. GMP holding an inquiry.

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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:59 am

cyfrifia wrote:   Rochdale in the national news again, something truly sad and tragic.   http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-26024485         So very sorry to hear that.    


National reports that Miss Shelvey, 41, had testified twice against defendant Patrick Hall, who stood trial last year, charged with raping seven women between 2006 and 2011.
He was acquitted of four rape charges and was cleared of the three ‘other’ charges at a retrial last week.

Reading the GMP summary, I do wonder WHAT " other agencies " the deceased was referred to for support, after she was told by them on Friday evening, given that we seem to have a week-end dearth of  many agency services : -

- ‘ The police force said two specially-trained officers, who had been supporting the woman since she made the rape allegation, visited her home to give her the news of the verdict on Friday evening.  They referred her to "other agencies" for support as she appeared angry and upset, the force added.’ ......
Sad

METRO, MEN, gmp

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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:53 pm


Chill37: Your PCC calls for, another Review

Tracy Shelvey death: Police and Crime Commissioner Tony Lloyd demands 'urgent review' into treatment of rape and sex abuse witnesses and victims

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/tracy-shelvey-death-police-crime-6669975



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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Chill37 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 1:38 pm

Mojo Hill wrote:
Chill37:   Your PCC calls for, another Review

Tracy Shelvey death: Police and Crime Commissioner Tony Lloyd demands 'urgent review' into treatment of rape and sex abuse witnesses and victims

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/tracy-shelvey-death-police-crime-6669975  


Just seen the article and commented on the article on Facebook.  Fully welcome the investigation.  I just hope something comes out this review. I.e. procedures to prevent another person taking their life.    I wil be frank, it's so easy to annouce reviews etc, but actions speak louder than words.      Clearly things need to be changed.

I do not wish to dilute or divert this topic, but I am awaiting the said same PCC to annouce a similar review and hard action into GMP failings in the two recent organised child sex abuse cases.


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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Guest on Tue Feb 04, 2014 4:54 pm

Chill37 wrote: --- Clearly things need to be changed.
I do not wish to dilute or divert this topic, but I am awaiting the said same PCC to announce a similar review and hard action into GMP failings in the two recent organised child sex abuse cases.



Chill37:  I think your wait for that one will be in vain: -         A new borough-wide programme for recommended actions has just been launched, MASS -  got to have a mnemonic   Rolling Eyes  -  following the Improvement Notice served to Rochdale Council’s children’s services by the Secretary of State in 2012, three prior Reviews and two still-pending reviews.



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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Chill37 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:13 pm

I too think I am wasting my time in hoping for an investigation into GMP failings

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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Dalelad on Tue Feb 04, 2014 7:54 pm

Although there may not be any police failings in this case. They are policemen and women, not miracle workers with the gift of foresight.
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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  keithatrochdale on Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:41 pm




If the police who were looking after her on friday evening passed the buck to others, would she then have to wait till monday to get further help?
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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Dalelad on Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:46 pm

Don't know. I do know that the police have a very difficult job and cannot be expected to look after everyone who may be vulnerable. It's not their job, surely?
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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Spartacus on Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:11 pm



I knew Tracy.
Absolutely tragic.
RIP Lass x



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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Atlas on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:16 am




Seven women make a complaint against this man and 'all' are unsafe or unfounded. Somebody somewhere is not doing the job properly. The CPS are usually very reticent regarding 'borderline' cases where the evidence is so weak as to produce 'all' acquittals. Something's wrong somewhere ???
 Mad  Crying or Very sad  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes



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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  johnb on Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:38 pm

There may well be something wrong, but there is a distinct flavour in all the commentaries that even though found innocent, the man is still, somehow guilty. This also cannot be right.
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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  keithatrochdale on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:06 pm





John, it is a sign of the times that the guilty are often protected better than the poor victim.

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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:23 pm


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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Hinch on Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:23 pm

I don't think this lady 'fell'. All indications are that she took her own life.

There seems, on the surface, to be a lot of questions to be asked and answered. She seemed to have been a particularly vulnerable person with a multiplicity of problems.

Let's hope that the truth comes out.
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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Spartacus on Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:02 pm

Hinch wrote:I don't think this lady 'fell'. All indications are that she took her own life.

There seems, on the surface, to be a lot of questions to be asked and answered. She seemed to have been a particularly vulnerable person with a multiplicity of problems.

Let's hope that the truth comes out.


Spot on, Hinch.


I consider myself very fortunately to have met Tracy.     I only knew her for a short while but it was an education.    We shared a few brews and deep chats when I was volunteering at a project in Heywood.    Tracy had fantastic insight.     She was a lovely, albeit damaged, soul.     Her story was well worth hearing.

The old adage "never judge a book by its cover" springs to mind.

I'll leave it there for now.




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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  keithatrochdale on Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:20 pm

I wouldn't hold your breath.
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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:19 pm

Holding the breath awaiting the truth to be told is a maybe not the best idea. Look at the Hillsborough inquiry, it can take years of lobbying for these things to get anywhere, meanwhile the facts are twisted this way and that to suit the agenda. Who has a main interest in getting to the truth and making it known? Newspaper reports are often shallow, facile and repeated, we need a much more vigorous investigative press.

Given that, we do hope the truth will emerge, and meantime skeptical of opinions.

Multi-storey car parks are grim. Ever since they appeared to blight our landscape, people have regularly fallen from them, accidentally or on purpose.

People are affected by the architecture they are surrounded by. For anyone that is depressed, multi-storey car parks must deepen that depression, the soulless, alienating architecture and harsh acoustics, the grim functionality, has always been a favorite film and TV background for grim, gritty dramas.

Multi-storey car parks are probably the most awful sort of architecture devised in the history of humanity, hard, nasty, disorienting, with sheer drops on to desolate pavements. The effect they have on people's mood should be recognised, and much more safety features applied to them.

http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/man-serious-condition-after-falling-4806239 http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/392268/Three-children-found-dead-at-home-after-pregnant-mum-is-killed-in-plunge http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/10780850.Call_to_cut_suicide_risk/ http://antidepaware.co.uk/when-is-a-suicide-not-a-suicide/ http://www.stalbansreview.co.uk/news/10361853.Man_who_fell_to_death_from_multi_storey_car_park_named/?ref=rss http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10079689.Man_fell_to_death_from_multi_storey_car_park/

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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Hinch on Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:03 am



Ah, right. It was Michael Caine that started it when he threw Alf Roberts off the Gateshead multi-storey in 'Get Carter'. Simples.

No doubt Sir Peter Feckless of GMP will tell the Inquiry, "It wasn't me what done it Guv. It was the brutalist architecture."

No, I'm not blaming GMP for this very tragic death but the recent grooming cases have demonstrated just how key Witness Protection programmes are in supporting very vulnerable witnesses over prolonged periods and this has been instrumental in helping them give clear evidence that has secured successful prosecutions and convictions. I read somewhere that in Liverpool the success rate has been reported at upwards of 90%. Why reinvent the wheel? I know we don't have a national police force but surely they should share good practice?

Like Sparks, I too knew a bit about this lady though I never met her. Very vulnerable with multiple problems going back over a long period. How effective were the Witness Protection Programme? Obviously, they cant guarantee a guilty verdict but how did they support her? Is it a 24/7 service, adequately resourced and delivered by highly trained personnel as in Liverpool, or is it a dumbed-down operation struggling to operate on a 9-5 Mon-Fri basis?

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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:33 pm

Mentioning the record of multi-storey car parks for accidents and suicides was not meant to detract. I'm distressed by the story and tried to imagine how the lady might have felt. Best to let those who do know what happened give their account. My reaction is sadness and sympathy.

Your question, Hinch: Is the Witness Protection Programme a 24/7 service, adequately resourced and delivered by highly trained personnel as in Liverpool or is it a dumbed-down operation struggling to operate on a 9-5 Mon-Fri basis?

Needs a proper answer. The environment we live in, built, social and how it is organised all needs to have more humane priorities. If no support is there for vulnerable witnesses over the weekend, and that seems quite probable, it needs sorting out.

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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Hinch on Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:44 pm



I've never been much good with subtlety Cyfrifia; usually preferring the dynamite and meat-cleaver method of entry. You may feel that the answer could lie in the way in which I phrased the question?

You may think that. I couldn't possibly comment..

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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:16 pm

Your style serves well on the forum Hinch, I find it more difficult to express what I mean in writing, but for some reason I keep trying.  Laughing 

Again, so sad to hear of this tragedy, and hope some sort of improvement by way of support for witnesses emerges from it.

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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Hinch on Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:19 pm

[size=18][Just announced, William Roach also found not guilty on all five counts of rape.

These historical cases are never easy to prove./size]
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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  Hinch on Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:33 pm




This video excerpt gives you some idea of how a Mon-Fri, 9-5, bargain basement, bare bones approach can't really work, particularly with vulnerable clients.

You need to be willing, able and have the resources to link in with other agencies to protect and support these people. They may have health and addiction support needs, housing problems, benefits to sort out and a whole host of other stuff including counselling and psychological support. This isn't just about making sure they turn up in court.

Were GMP equipped to do this?

I'm sure the Inquiry will reveal all... or perhaps not. Early indications are not encouraging.



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Re: Rape case complainant kills herself

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:35 am

Hinch wrote:This isn't just about making sure they turn up in court.

So many services and organisations do work to that sort of 'bottom line', measure of performance. A 'price of everything and value of nothing' arrangement unsuitable for services that deal with people.

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