Knowl View gets much worse

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Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Hinch on Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:47 pm

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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Guest on Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:58 pm



When you think it just couldn't get worse, it did    pale .       I don't believe any agency ... police, council, political party or what-ever, really can police itself / mark it's own homework.


-  So, 33 boxes of different paperwork now emerge, incorporating meeting Minutes, governor records, case notes and various documents relevant to Knowl View school and historic activities there, etcetera !  

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/86439/archive-of-33-boxes-of-paperwork-on-special-school-at-the-centre-of-sex-abuse-allegations-against-cyril-smith-discovered

-  When you read that a Health Authority AIDS specialist wrote a report, warning Education and Social Services senior officers quote, that “sexual activity” at the residential school “will become a public scandal,”  it could raise some Hillsborough-type comparisons: -            If retired police officers can, despite their own initial refusals to co-operate, then be questioned ' Under Caution ' about events at Hillsborough as part of that current enquiry, why can't retired people from any establishment, or sector, who were involved in Knowl View similarly be questioned - as part of a true / comprehensive investigation ?  Question 


 

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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Hinch on Wed Apr 09, 2014 5:30 am

Rochdale council later described what happened at the school as 'incidents'.

These 'incidents' included homosexual rape on boys as young as 8, boys forced to have sex with each other, oral sex sessions in the toilet, rent boys operating openly in Smith Street toilets and much, much more. Up to 25% of the boys were believed to be involved but it was all hushed up in the way that Rochdalians have grown used to over many decades.

There was some involvement by the police but this was largely ineffectual and steered clear of sensitive areas such as the involvement of staff and management etc. The rest is the depressingly familiar mixture of council incompetence, missing files etc. You know, NFR: Normal For Rochdale.

A 1995 story in the Indie gives a good account.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boys-in-special-school-were-at-risk-of-aids-1600318.html
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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Apr 12, 2014 12:45 pm



Can it get much worse? Apparently so.

With the publication of Simon Danczuk's book, mail online today goes to town on Cyril Smith, with several extracts and articles including graphic description of 'industrial scale' child abuse, cover ups and connection to recent grooming cases.

With this expose, Cyril Smith now becomes a national 'bogey man', an icon of filth and depravity, difficult to imagine that view ever being reversed.

'What is wrong with Rochdale', ongoing acceptance of child abuse, and grooming, are all highlighted.

Authorities need to make the effort to vomit up whatever has been hidden, for everyone's benefit, difficult to do, but otherwise it will just very unpleasantly drag on.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/86556/daily-mail-serialising-mps-book-on-shocking-cover-up-of-cyril-smiths-industrial-scale-child-abuse

On the theme of 'What's wrong with Rochdale' Could it be that the good people of Rochdale are too kind hearted and willing to think the best of people, and the bad people in Rochdale are ruthless at exploiting that with a smiley face?


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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Hinch on Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:45 pm



Still plenty around who refuse to believe that Smith was a paedophile. Read the 'Rochdale Past and Present' Facebook site for confirmation.

Even more worryingly are those who accept the stories of this filthy beast's activities yet think it should be hushed up to preserve the 'good name of the town'.

No wonder he was never arrested.

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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  johnb on Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:56 pm




I am waiting for Greg Couzens' take on all this.
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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  johnb on Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:22 pm




Anybody published a list of governors yet?

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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Chill37 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:31 pm

johnb wrote:I am waiting for Greg Couzens' take on all this.

He wil say its too negative, or everyone is negative and be banned from his little cabal fb page,.  Everything is sunny.  Oh, did you know the river is being opened?

Look at me, look at me!!!



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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  keithatrochdale on Sat Apr 12, 2014 10:57 pm

There is one good thing about this, at least it will help our local MPs sales for his book.

Would be nice if he donated the money he makes to a charity to help the victums!

Not going to hold my breath though.

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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Guest on Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:38 pm




Police investigating the sexual abuse of children by former MP Cyril Smith have been told of ‘at least’ 11 other suspects, all of whom had links to Knowl View School: -


Today’s media article states, “Following the publicity surrounding Sir Cyril Smith last year, seven people came forward to report physical and sexual abuse which occurred at Knowl View from the 1970s onwards.               It further stated that next month a report is due to be published by a barrister, Andrew Warnock QC, who was instructed by Rochdale council this January to ‘independently review all council decision-making’ related to the former special school in Bamford from the late 80s to mid 90s.

-  
 http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/rochdale-cyril-smith-abuse-probe-6981136

A social worker raised the issue of child abuse at Cambridge House hostel for boys with the chief constable of Rochdale in 1965.   The Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) has admitted that Cyril Smith should have been prosecuted for abusing boys in the 1960s.  

These Gap Years in reports, purported investigations / cover-ups and more potential suspects / abusers seem to add to a rancid local Circus of “ there’s more. ”  

Surprising how 33 boxes of archive school-related records have recently been ‘discovered’ from the bowels of RMBC.          

Surely the period, places and different local people under police and council reviews should run from the 1960s onwards, and be led by an indisputably independent  investigating team ?  Time for a no-holes-barred, pedantic public enquiry ?


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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Atlas on Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:53 am




When you are 'instructed' by the 'State' to 'shut up' if you know what is good for you -YOU SHUT UP. This wasn't just a bit of friendly advice at the time - and it still isn't. Get real. What do you think you have been dealing with. silent silent silent
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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Hinch on Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:22 am



Mojo is right. Although many date the great expose by RAP in 1979 as being the start of things, I know for a sure fact that they were sitting on information from much earlier in 1971/2 and possibly before.

I do not know what information they had but hard to believe it did not consist of information from victims who had gone to RAP because they hadn't got anywhere with the Dibble and the council.

I was aware of gossip since the mid-60‘s, as were most people who had any dealings with Cambridge House but, as I was in my mid-teens, it was all a bit nudge-nudge, wink-wink and I would certainly not claim that this amounted to hard knowledge although the staff at CH must have known what was going on.


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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Guest on Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:11 pm

johnb wrote:

Anybody published a list of governors yet?


You expecting transparency ! ?


Several people, for different reasons, have tried to elicit this information unsuccessfully during the past few years, like:         Knowl View, Governors and Commitee Membership - a Freedom of Information request to Rochdale Metropolitan Borough Council …..      Feb – Sept 2009  "waffles"   

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/knowl_view_governors_and_commite


It’s understood the more recent Knowl View allegations about child abuse suspects are not against Cyril Smith

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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:14 am

As Hinch reminds us, the reputation of Cyril as a man of the people, who worked tirelessly for Rochdale and represented the town well, endures. Simon's book delivers juddering body blows to that reputation, but the big man absorbs them and refuses to go down.

Rather than a scandal that dies down within a year, the Cyril Smith story drags on wearily, more of a slogging political battle than anyone would like, and Simon could be admired for a determined effort to piece together and present the facts.

The implications of lines of evidence, into the management of 'care' homes, culture of the times, police and security services, various politicians and political parties, is daunting, threatening to throw new light on historical and formative political events.

Places are labelled in the media and public mind. The media compares Cyril now to Jimmy Saville, who had a mobile career, Cyril however is permanently identified with Rochdale.

The way to limit long term damage to the Rochdale 'brand' and morale of the town is with a genuine and thorough drive to find all documents related to the Cyril Smith years, make them transparently available, and damn the consequences.

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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Hinch on Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:47 am

In truth, he did work very hard on his man of the people image and, lest it be forgot, worked extremely hard for his constituents. I have just re-read his book, "Big Cyril." He was certainly not without self-belief but comes across as being a canny opportunist rather than having any intellectual depth.

At the end though, I find it impossible to separate the pervert from the person. He used his power for personal and sexual gratification. That is his legacy and how he will be remembered.

He also lacked humility. In his opinion, he was always right and he became a slave to the cult of personality and to the image that he very carefully concocted for himself.

The veneer that he created for himself, was very willingly topped up by his acolytes who wanted to be part of the myth. This continued even after his death and still continues to this day by people who refuse to admit they backed a loser.
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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:57 am

Hinch wrote:
The veneer that he created for himself, was very willingly topped up by his acolytes who wanted to be part of the myth. This continued even after his death and still continues to this day by people who refuse to admit they backed a loser.

There are still ex-patients of Dr. Shipman who say what a good G.P. he was. The continuing serialisation of 'Smile for the Camera' is devastatingly unpleasant, and apparently factual.

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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Guest on Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:31 pm

cyfrifia wrote:
The continuing serialisation of 'Smile for the Camera' is devastatingly unpleasant, and apparently factual.


and more local named people are referred to in it, another deceased Governor and Councillor being just one of them: -  


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2604610/Sex-ring-Cyrils-school-He-WASNT-lone-wolf-In-latest-devastating-extract-book-shaking-Westminster-reveal-Cyril-Smith-led-ring-abusers-launched-night-time-raids-school-vulnerable-boys.html


Perhaps time to bring comments back on the thread ' Cyril Smith - New Biography ' ?

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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Atlas on Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:05 am


I think it is true to say that none of us really knew the extent to which Big Cyril operated. As I say in my book - arse spanking is somewhat a long way from the truth but, without proper evidence and more than one young lad re-telling his story to me, and doubtless others, none of us could have visualised the realities which obviously lay beyond. Arse spanks were common in my day. Both in school and in the home and as such were not considered 'abuse'. So - where does that leave us in this common age of 'liberalism'? That each and every one of us were physically abused and sometimes mentally as well? How are we as the finished product? Does sparing the rod make for a 'better' society? Which is not to say that these revelations are, or ever could be, acceptable or justified.   But it does go a long way to explaining HOW it was 'viewed' and WHY many did no speak out at the time. Notwithstanding the 'State's' interference and others lower down the ladder. I cannot possibly say in conclusion that sparing the rod has made a better society, but I can say that these examinations of the past wherein the abuse goes beyond chastisement can only make things better for the future. Let's hope that everyone concerned NOW does their job properly and that those that can be brought to justice are and as quickly as possible.  Jeez. What a world-!!! Sad

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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Hinch on Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:31 am

Arse spanking very common in my house, administered by my Mum. Arse also well thrashed at school. However, this administered in a controlled way and without the faux 'medical examinations' and genital fondling that Smith seemed to specialise in.These allegations known for 35 years.

What we didn't then know about were the blow-jobs, rent boys, sad masochist sex and visits to sordid London vice dens.
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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:36 am

For anyone visiting the town and consequently wondering 'What is the matter with Rochdale?' Simon Danczuk's book is an excellent explanatory document.

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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Hinch on Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:00 am




To be read in conjunction with 'Girl A' to give it that up to the minute context and perhaps prove to the most ardent of the let-sleeping-dogs-lie brigade that there really is something rotten in the state of Denmark and that the cover ups continue apace.



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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:47 pm

It appears that, during the Cyril Smith years, local opinion supported the idea that a lot of bottoms being harshly spanked was the approved answer for the problems of Rochdale. Have opinions moved on from that in any meaningful way?

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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Atlas on Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:41 am


Well of course cyfrifia. it is no longer allowed within the law. It is now classed as physical abuse and an infringement on a child's human rights. We didn't have any 'rights'. It was more a question of 'knowing ones place' and sparing the rod was deemed counter-productive towards a well structured/groomed society. (You only have to read my books to know that. There were no lies or embellishments therein - believe me.)

As for 'having moved on'? One would hope so. But I question the length of the move. Too much. Too fast. And without any realisation of the consequences involved.  

But of course this particular nasty episode goes beyond brutal treatment for a social good (as deemed necessary). This is something else entirely. I do believe that one or two of my tormentors got a sort of sexual gratification from their demented actions but not 'overtly' so to speak. - It's a funny world isn't it?   Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:15 am

It is, and it seems a very complicated one.

Today's installment of Simon's book considers the social values of the time, the harsh morality and poverty, when Cyril was growing up, and the effect on his character.

Things change, but that sense of social harshness, of perhaps a different kind, and relative poverty still seem to be a significant background to Rochdale today.

Different people may draw different ideas from 'Smile for the Camera', it certainly touches heavily on to a lot of problematic facts and themes.

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Re: Knowl View gets much worse

Post  Hinch on Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:27 pm



A lot of people grew up under these conditions, but they did not all go on to become predatory paedophiles. It is wrong now and it was wrong then.


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