Victory against Japan Day

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Victory against Japan Day

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:50 pm

After atomic bombs were dropped on the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945, the Japanese considered surrendering, but apparently, it was the declaration of war against them by Russia that convinced them.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/soviets-declare-war-on-japan-invade-manchuria

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/veteran-chadderton-recounts-horrors-hands-9863096

The cruelty of the Japanese in WW2 was extreme, many prisoners and victims cannot forgive them. Raises questions about nations, cultures and individuals, where does responsibility lie?

Is it best for victims to forgive their torturers? May be best for individual victims to forgive, rather than carry a weight of hatred. Forgiveness is different to justice, important to distinguish between the two.

A torturer may be forgiven by his victims, but should, for the sake of humanity, face justice. What penalty should such a guilty person face? In cases such as some Japanese on the Burma railway, the death penalty seems lenient, a quick and easy death being luxurious, compared to what they meted out.

Can an entire nation be guilty of such crimes? Japan makes limited apologies as a nation now and then. UK has apologised for crimes comitted in colonial times.

The inhumanity of mankind is an ongoing problem. Can it be solved by killing criminals, or destroying their nations? Some questions from VJ day. We appreciate the peace we have, but evil runs free in the world, with entire populations fleeing it.

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Re: Victory against Japan Day

Post  Atlas on Sun Aug 16, 2015 2:23 pm

Debatable on the question of surrender. To discover more read Black Dust by Atlas D'four. Very Happy

It was by no means a large majority that convinced Hiroito to surrender. And indeed some Japs fought on until eliminated by force - regardless of the Russians who had by that time re-taken Manchuria and decimated the Wangtung Army (Aug 1945).

Approx 300 war criminals (Japs) were executed at the end of the war for crimes against humanity etc. By no means the full quota. Less Nazis were executed because we wanted them for reconstruction etc. Politics. What can you do?

My books point out that not nations or people make war. It's politicians and governments. They and only they are responsible in the final analysis. What individuals then do has to be weighed against the pressures brought to bear as against a personal bestiality in the individual. Each event requires proper investigation if one is to then act as a final judge on the matters.
Nobody said it would be easy - - > Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

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Re: Victory against Japan Day

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Aug 16, 2015 3:41 pm

There has to be a limit to the tolerance society can have for individuals who, for whatever reason are, or have become evil and dangerous. It's for the law to define evil and dangerous, but there must be law.

Seems you are right, Atlas, responsibility has to rest where the power is, generally with governments. Politicians have little real power until they are in government.

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Re: Victory against Japan Day

Post  Atlas on Mon Aug 17, 2015 1:40 pm

Indeed it is all a question of outside pressures against inherent evil in the individual. There are thousands of incidences where external pressure produce war crimes and again thousands of instances where bestiality of the individual produced a war crime. It takes a brave man not to follow orders when not to do so could result in his own life being forfeit. It takes an obscene coward who commits cold bloodied murder for the thrill of it. Therein lies the difference. Each has to be subjected to the test before a rational decision can be made on criminality or not - as the case may be. I know - spent decades tussling with the conundrum.

All war is criminal- but sometimes wars are necessary. How sad is that. Sad Sad Sad Sad Sad Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: Victory against Japan Day

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Aug 18, 2015 12:19 pm

The antidote to criminality is law. The solution to unjust, unworkable and unenforceable laws is, better, fairer and more practical law.

Most of us have grown up in a war free zone, where the normalities of war, murder, torture, slavery and so on are seen as abberations. Perhaps this gives us a rose tinted view of human behavior?

History and archeology show humans have slaughtered and mutilated each other as far back as knowledge can go. We need to accept human beings are not all necessarily basically well meaning and pleasant creatures, they need education, care, and law. What are the best and most useful types of education, care and law is arguable.


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Re: Victory against Japan Day

Post  Atlas on Tue Aug 18, 2015 1:58 pm

Man is incapable of 'policing' himself. Given that as a fact of human life leaves one with the only logical solution - Evolution itself. We (that is our species) must wait until sufficient millennia have passed and our hearts and minds have evolved sufficiently to understand that our own existence will come ultimately to rely on a peaceful coexistence. Until then - dream on Horatio. Crying or Very sad Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Wink
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Re: Victory against Japan Day

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:28 pm

Evolution tends to work by eliminating the species that fail for one reason or another. Humans need to sort themselves out while they have the chance, or they will miss the boat.

These are the days of our lives. Dreaming of a super evolved future is perhaps a dangerous illusion. It's probably more of a do-it-yourself arrangement.

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Re: Victory against Japan Day

Post  Atlas on Wed Aug 19, 2015 3:13 pm

Pandora's box. Shocked Smile Smile Smile Sad Sad Sad
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Re: Victory against Japan Day

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:58 pm

According to the stories of Greek mythology, Pandora has already opened her box, releasing all sorts of evils and problems into the world, which does seem to fit with the situation as we know it.

On a more allegorical level, yes, for the human race to take it's destiny into it's own hands does risk unleashing potentially uncontrollable forces. We have the technologies for atomkraft, genetic modification, chemical warfare, and similar possibly irreversible horrors, but they can't be stuffed back into the box, perhaps we have no choice but to develop a way to cope.

To wait around hoping for humans to evolve into something more sensible has it's merits, but it's probably a bit like gardening, it depends on using what is given, plants, earth, rain etc, plus the knowledge and hard work to make a garden of it.

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Re: Victory against Japan Day

Post  Atlas on Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:26 pm

It's what was left in the box that we humans must rely on.

We are moving inexorably towards a section 'with' and a massive section 'without'. The trick will be to keep the 'without' fighting amongst themselves and the 'with' only interfering to keep the pot boiling. In that way the planet will shed the billions of 'without', by dint of war and pestilence, allowing the 'with' to continue merrily along to further propagate more 'with'. Eventually the 'with' will be in the majority, albeit a mere few millions, and the life of the human will become less volatile and more satisfactory.Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral
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