Local hospitals some of worst in the country for A&E waiting times

Quoted from Rol

Quote Newly released statistics show just 80.2 per cent of people attending local hospitals were seen within four hours in November.

Maybe if they had kept the Rochdale Infirmary they would not be be one of the countries worst PCTs yet again.  

Paid so much and couldn't see this coming!

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I wouldn't pretend to know the first thing about the running of hospitals and such like. I do know an awful lot of money goes towards it and that it is a monstrous undertaking both in terms of employment and output etc etc. The bigger is not always the better. Throwing money at the problems in such large organisations rarely has the desired effect - tends to get swallowed up before it filters down to where it is genuinely needed. Would take a better man than I Gunda Din.

If Rochdale has 'madmen' like this attacking people

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3405465/Violence-obsessed-killer-called-Madman-posed-revolvers-machetes-Facebook-page-jailed-punching-man-death-fun.html

It's definitely going to need a bigger and better accident and emergency service.

This misguided young man has been known about for quite some time. This 'type' are always left to wallow and it isn't until something very bad happens, that society takes note. To 'intervene' prior to isn't allowed under their human rights and it isn't until they contrive or instigate upsetting the human rights of others do the 'establishment' take a hand.  So what's the answer??

In addition to the usual mechanisms of justice, courts could charge all immediate and future medical costs of treating victims on the criminals who cause the injury, seize all assets of murderers, and pay the money into the NHS.

The people you are talking about haven't got any tangible assets and therefore wouldn't pay the bill. Collections would be useless and cost more than the fines. Prison would cost even more. Based upon purely financial restraints such a policy wouldn't be beneficial.

To have a system that works you would need to go back 70 years and institute the policies of prison or forces - penal brigades and with those you would have to turn a blind eye to their form of sanctions with 'bad boys'. Pendulum allowed to swing too far too quickly and hey-presto - you have a situation you cannot fight against and hope to win.

Yes, can see that. Courts could impose financial penalties, but without the systems to enforce them, it would just add to the general fiasco.

Really though, it is natural justice that someone who for instance stabs someone should be responsible for paying at least something towards the medical bill to save the life of their victim.

It is not an unreasonable aspiration, simply an unattainable one(within reasonable constraints).
You can see from such examples as this where the 'Right Wing' malcontent's get their ammunition from. The more we paper over the 'cracks' the more we shall have to answer for in later times. The 'Right' are on the march across all the democratic regions - and they are gaining ground, albeit slowly. When sufficient people get fed up with the 'iniquities' abounding will be the signal for 'right wing elements' to grab at power. If successful it will be one hell of a mess for everyone. Hopefully I will be gone before then.

Making violent criminals pay something towards the medical costs of treating those they attack would be difficult to organise, but, things worth doing usually are difficult.

In cases such as this below, some special 'Rochdale' arrangement may be needed.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/watch-bizarre-moment-man-launches-10775109

At one time he would have been taken in by the local bobby as 'creating a public nuisance' and thrown into a cell until he came round or cooled off. Now it would be against his human rights and no self respecting copper would go anywhere near him. Loonies left to wander the streets is called 'care in the community' but without the care.

It isn't clear in the video how the man, surrounded as he is on a street corner injures his head, but the general principle of hospital A&E having to cope with lot of violent injuries to do with poor mental health, drugs and crime must be a huge problem.

Remove the asylums and replace them with A&E - and - voila - chaos. Surprise, surprise.

Viola chaos sounds quite nice, mellow string music amongst little purple flowers, or perhaps that's not quite what you had in mind.

Well done to those hard working souls in the NHS who do their best to put people back together, plus, it's very sad to see what happens when the NHS is mismanaged and patients are mistreated when they are most vulnerable.

The NHS is probably the best and most important organisation of our society, where it is showing problems, it urgently deserves and needs intelligent and informed attention.

Nothing wrong with the NHS other than it is too big and will inevitably promote waste and hide amongst it the dross who in other spheres would have been shown the door.

Personal insurances are the only other way. But unlike the USA they would have to be underwritten through government dictate. When something is free it is abused to the ultimate. That's the nature of the beast. It was supposed to be 'need' - -  not 'want'. Get back to need and we stand a chance.

"Nothing wrong with the NHS"?

When and where the NHS does go wrong, and there are well known examples of that, it's a horror show.

Are such failures inevitable in such a large organisation?

Go wrong... compared to what?

What are acceptable infection and death rates?

I f we compared them to those of a hospital in 1930, 1950, 1960, 1970 would we have better or worse results?

Perhaps we need to start managing expectations, particularly since resistance to antibiotics will make sepsis incredibly common again.

Yes. Absolutely. Happens in all gargantuan organisations. 10% all the time is going wrong (for one reason or another). Fact of life. Expectations are too high and (as mentioned) require proper management and rational aforethought. Unfortunate if you just happen to get wrapped up in that 10% that's going to fail. But hey kid ------ that's life (or death) depending upon the outcomes.

Your fatalistic, 'devil may care' attitude to life, death and serious injury would be ideal for leading a world war one bayonet charge, Atlas, but may not be entirely appropriate in a modern hospital ward.

Just trying to be honest and looking at the overall picture through clear glasses kiddo -. Come on lass.
We both know 'life' is a lottery. There's a good chance of getting through most of it if you keep your head, don't tempt fate and trust no bugger other than yourself and then only half trust yourself.

To expect to put your trust in others and not be prone to fatal outcomes is cloud-cuckoo land. If it all comes out well, then you have struck lucky again. If not - you obviously bought a bum-ticket.
p.s. I would never lead or follow a foolhardy act without first having weighed up the options - certainly not since the age of 6 anyway. Purely upon one of my granddad's first saying that I remember well -. He who fights and stands his ground etc etc etc -.  Know what I mean? Can you see what it is yet?

Yes, it's an iffy old world, but sometimes we must put our trust in others, and sometimes others will rely on us. 

Yep. That's about it.

And now for something completely different -.


Rochdale's people seem to have lost the plot. As a result it seems anything north of Manchester will become a dumping ground for failures and lost people. Q. Is it time to leave do you think?

Those who have been waiting a few generations for things to improve may be getting a bit restless.

I have to tell you of something I learned some time ago. Power has its limits.
It is very bad policy to allow any power structure to reign beyond its useful limit. That limit, in the vast majority of cases, is eight to ten years. Man's capacity to remain objective wanes as his time in power transpires. It's psychological as he slowly becomes immune to the reality and begins to believe his own propaganda.
I would suggest you have had too much 'singular' power in Rochdale by the same people for far too long. Given the alternatives I can understand why. Such however does you a disservice. Which leaves you with only one resort. Time to change the town's politics however distasteful and against the grain it might be. I see no alternative. The cartwheel is stuck firmly in the rut and only draconian measures are ever going to release it.
How you do that I have no idea. Perhaps go for UKIP in a big way as a starting point and hope to shake the hell out of the rest. Make the bastards stand up and take notice.