Mysteries of the Universe

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Mysteries of the Universe

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:34 pm

Seeing as it's a bit quiet on here, and some very knowledgeable people look in from time to time, this could be a chance to get answers to the questions that puzzle us.

I will kick off with 'What is the point of a fan oven?' A fan oven blows hot air about, singes and dries out whatever you are trying to cook, blows hot air in your face, makes an annoying noise for ages after it's turned off, drowning out conversation across the dinner table, and costs money to run.

So, what's the idea? Why are there fan ovens? Why can't you turn off the fan?

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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  johnb on Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:31 pm

By having a circulating fan you get more efficient circulation of the heating atmosphere giving more uniform heating of the articles in the oven and better heat transfer (meaning quicker cooking times). All this copes with the fact that modern ovens are physically much lighter and do not gain uniformity by storing (wasting) heat in the structure of the oven - a fan in an Aga would be very pointless.

The downside is that food cooks quicker and the uniformity means that you do not get 'advantage' of cool spots. In other words, as against conventional recipes, the oven needs to be set slightly cooler and cooking times shorter. Some indeed have settings to turn the fan off, when required...

Another issue is that fan ovens, being modern, are calibrated in centigrade where as curmudgeonly chefs tend to be calibrated in Fahrenheit. Conversion has been known to cause problems.

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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  Atlas on Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:28 pm

Very interesting johnb. I will now take a few minutes off in a dark room with a wet towel over my forehead to digest the intricacies of 'cooking' by fan oven or not as the case may be. My wife has one and is continuously bitching over its rather good qualities. I have suggested she dons her wellies and buggers off into the garden and uses the barbecue - a rather good 'real' fire with all the burnt tasty trimmings to boot. As you can imagine I now need the wet towel to wipe off all the blood and the darkness of the room to calm the swellings. cyfrifia - where do you get them from - and I don't mean fan-assisted ovens? Wow.Rolling Eyes Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Shocked Shocked Very Happy
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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:02 pm

Where do I get them from? Already installed when we bought the house, and the house before that, and wherever other house else I visit, fan ovens seem to have taken over all kitchens.

Thankyou JohnB for your explanation of how fan oven technology dries out and singes food rather than cooking it, and manages that whilst making a lot of noise and blowing hot air at the cook when they open the oven to see how the dinner is being spoiled.

I have yet to understand why this expensive, impractical, noisy and irritating spinoff product from the hairdryer industry was ever considered to be a good idea, and particularly, why anyone would want one. Just because something is popularly accepted by the public doesn't mean it's good, things like that often turn out to be the opposite. Pretty much given up trying to cook anything, don't like to waste good food like that. Can't turn the fan off, living on microwaved ready meals.

I suppose a new generation have been brought up on horribly mis-cooked fanoven food now, and think it's normal.

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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  Atlas on Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:19 pm

It was 20 years before I would use a micro-wave and I only use them now for warming things up quickly. I think the wife might use it for some cooking - who knows. It's all very un - Boy scoutish.
I was a 20c boy when men were men and we all knew the difference of those that weren't. Wink Wink Wink
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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:16 pm

For all the cooking programmes on the telly, proper old fashioned cooking seems to be forgotten. Cook a proper meal for kids these days and they are 'gobsmacked'. Trouble with cooking properly of course, is that people just eat it up and it's gone.

One day in the future, the human race will awake from it's delerium and realise that fan ovens are, and always were, a monstrous carbuncle on the face of the kitchen.

Thanks for the attempt to explain Johnb, but nothing yet convinces me that the world wouldn't be a far far better place without fan ovens. Heat 'stored' in an oven isn't wasted, especially in winter, it doesn't disappear, it heats the house. A fan oven just blows the heat around, and what on earth is the idea of a fan grill, where the element tries to heat the food, and the fan blows the heat away?

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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  Atlas on Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:51 pm

I have a thing about dishwashers. I don't like them. Never have. Does that make me a Luddite? Shocked
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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:01 pm

People don't 'like' dishwashers as far as I know. They are annoying and complicated, I don't trust them, what residue are they leaving on the plates? I have heard tales of dishwashers in hotels etc that aren't serviced properly growing big fungi inside them.

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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  Atlas on Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:31 pm

No self respecting kitchen south of Warrington would be without one - so I'm told. Fungi or not to fungi that is the question. Water waste or not to waste is another. What's wrong with a trip down to the brook with the wooden bowl and pan-scrub?
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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:00 pm

Not everyone has a suitable stream running through the garden. Mostly people live in little boxes with a selection of electrical gadgets.

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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  johnb on Mon Jan 25, 2016 12:37 pm

For the record, dishwashers use less water and energy than the traditional method, and, since they will work at a higher temperature allow a more sterile result. Win/win situation.
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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  Atlas on Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:57 pm

Never in a 1,000 years johnb. Hotter no doubt. Less wasteful not a chance. Less energy not a chance. My daughter has one. Only positive. One wash a day.But you should count the plates etc in her cupboards. You could fit out an army with them. Never beat the hand-wash jobbie. Apart from which it gives you lot something to do other than look out the window - Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:06 pm

So the explanation for why fan ovens exist is that they are cheaper to manufacture and distribute, being made of thinner metal, and need replacing or spare parts sooner because there are more electronic bits to fail?

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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  johnb on Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:30 pm

cyfrifia wrote:So the explanation for why fan ovens exist is that they are cheaper to manufacture and distribute, being made of thinner metal, and need replacing or spare parts sooner because there are more electronic bits to fail?

No. They are low thermal mass, so they use less energy, so are cheaper to use. (Note that most fan ovens will run from a single 13 amp socket), They have a fan to circulate the air so they cook quicker, at a lower temperature, using less energy.

ALL electrical appliances are not as durable (fridges, washing machines, ovens, toaster, kettles). Modern 'conventional' ovens are doubtless less durable also.
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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:18 pm

I suppose it depends on dinnertime lifestyle, if you want to relax, cook something nice to eat, and for it to be quiet enough to think while you do it, then relax and have coffee, soaking up the heat being released into the room from the 'thermal mass' of the oven, for that, a fan oven is no use.

If, alternatively, you want to dash in, scorch some saugages, turn the radio to maximum volume over the noise of the fan, have your face blasted with hot air, then run away with half baked sausages from the sound of the fan carrying on after the heat is turned off, a fan oven would be ideal.

It is possible every fan oven I've come across is, to some extent, broken. In my experience, fan ovens don't cook as traditionally understood, they make a lot of noise and scorch food.

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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  Atlas on Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:55 pm

I think we have here a tussle between the sciences and the traditionalists. Not an unusual condition I might add. I think you are both correct with your points of view coming as you are from diametrically opposed angles. johnb - the lover of all that helps push the boundaries forward, cyfrifia from the stance of 'if it was good enough for the old lady it's good enough for me'. Bless you. For myself - I prefer the camp-fire and the rabbit on a stick. But then I'm a bit of a lover of the histories and the simple pleasures. Fair fortune peoples. Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:49 pm

Perhaps there are fan ovens and fan ovens? Trying to understand what the basic idea of a noisy, unpleasant and useless kitchen device might have been in the first place is difficult, so thanks to Johnb for attempting to explain the thinking behind this modern bit of nonsense. Perhaps there are other failures and annoyances of the modern world that he can explain to us.

For example, I bought a galaxy tablet in the black friday sales. Live  and learn why not. Turned out there is no chocolate involved. When I turned it on and 'swiped' it, it a screechy womans voice started to ........... screech, and would not stop.

It became impossible to touch the thing without being screeched at, so it went in the pile of stuff that's useless.

A young person, under 40, found in the settings, that it had been set for a partially sighted person, hence the screeching lady voice which is meant to be helpful, apparently. With this explanation from a modern person, and the removal of the vocal cords from the tablet, it has now been moved to the pile of things that might be useful, possibly.

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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  Atlas on Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:39 pm

And there you have it!!!!!!!! Modern things for modern people - who know how to operate them and can make their laptops provide you with cups of tea. Now you have the answer in your own hands lass. Don't buy owt that is newer than 1985 - cause it will bite you on the bum. Hey up??? Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Feb 21, 2016 10:35 am

The effect of the moon on the tides is weaker in the tropics than nearer the poles, why is that then?

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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  Atlas on Sun Feb 21, 2016 2:15 pm

Because of gravity and the fact that we, the Earth, is a sphere not a ball and we are 'tilted' not upright. Newton - when does an apple fall sideways? Doh. Laughing Shocked Smile Rolling Eyes Very Happy Wink Wink
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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:45 am

Michael Bentine gave a similar explanation.

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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  Atlas on Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:21 pm

A very clever man that Bentine fella. Loved his flea circus.

meanwhile - Why is a Black Hole black?
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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:21 am

Understanding time and tide, seasons, landscape, weather, and connection between them all has always been useful and relevant. Is it of any use to anyone to know about black holes, or is that just info-tainment.


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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  Atlas on Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:30 pm

I suppose, in answer to your question, that it is on the one hand info-tainment and on the other hand an assuaging of one's curiosity. Being a follower of the chaos theory and circumstantial assembling the knowledge of the 'workings' and 'being' of Black Holes and how they fit into the creation and destruction of universes greatly interests me. As to why they are black and not for instance green polka-dot on yellow is probably down to enormous gravitational forces that block out the shades of the spectrum leaving only black energy and black matter (of which 95% of the universe is made). Ergo we see with the naked eye only 'Black'.
How this fits into the 'tides' here on Earth is probably a correlation between the birth of our solar system and the black hole at the centre of it and the 'spin-off' in the assembling of the same. Is that any clearer?Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Wink Wink Wink Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Mysteries of the Universe

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:42 pm

It's surprising what different things people find interesting at different times. For instance I have tired somewhat of listening to episodes of Hancocks half hour, and am now listening to the Dad's army radio series. Both very good but existing in parrallel universes.

Our local black hole is at the centre of our galaxy, rather then the centre of our solar system isn't it? My knowledge is amateur.

The recent hearing of a 'click' of black holes colliding must have been an exciting day for black hole enthusiasts. It is astonishing that we are whizzing round in a vortex of creation and destruction ( or re-cycling?) at unimaginable speeds, and yet can watch a speck of dust falling gently in the sunlight.  sunny

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