Islam in Europe.

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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  Atlas on Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:53 pm

Not by design. It will happen eventually as 'man' reaches out to new explorations and science finally wins the battle to explain our planet, its origins, its future and how 'we' (all life) come to be here. Religions 'bank' on there being some miraculous 'other' entity that creates by design - ergo - as if by 'magic'. Sciences 'bank' on physical combinations producing what can be proven by example - ergo - natural evolution - evolution being the results of combining and mixing atoms to the tune of 10 to the power of minus 26 or as known quantum-physics etc etc. One requires a messianic belief the other tireless experimentation and constant searching. I know which I 'believe' to be the truth - and it isn't the universal witch-doctor. Meanwhile there will be those who require something in their lives to keep them sane, a comfort blanket, and those who can take 'life' regardless and create their own comfort and sanity. Not at all complicated when one looks at it logically. Very Happy
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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:26 pm

Wikipedia has some interesting articles about religion in space and astronauts experiences. What may happen in a far-flung future is guesswork. For the time being, having freedom of religion or not and to have your own beliefs is the status quo. If the 'Islamic conquest of europe' were to happen, that freedom would be history.

Science is fascinating and mind-expanding stuff. We live in very interesting times for those who are interested. The big questions in science always seem to lead on to further puzzles and debates, difficult to imagine science ever actually explaining the things you list.

All these things, science, technology, information, politics, government, administration, education, religion, economics etc etc all mesh together and effect each other. As we go on, malfunction in any one of them can make a mess of things.

Meanwhile back at the ranch, the aforementioned Chaplain to the Queen has resigned his post.
https://ashenden.org/2017/01/21/resignation-form-the-office-of-chaplain-to-the-queen/

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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  Atlas on Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:59 pm

Why the Queen would have need of a personal chaplain I cannot imagine. But I do see the man's dilemma in that his position might lead some to assume that what he says is for and on behalf of the Queen. Therefore - au-revoir and try for a proper job along with everybody else.Mad
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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:13 pm

It can be very difficult to get a proper job that pays enough to live on. What options do you think he might have?

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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  Atlas on Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:11 pm

The same as the rest of us. Hello- reality calling- - ! Welcome to the real world. Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:22 pm

Newly unemployed at age 62, Gavin Ashenden, ex-Chaplain to the Queen, is described by his colleagues as a man of integrity, who speaks the truth without compromise.

Perhaps he could do the odd bit of painting and decorating, as long as no-one asks him if he likes the colour scheme.

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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  Atlas on Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:18 pm

What truth? You're talking about a human being who thinks an entity, in the shape of a human, put together a planet, this one, and everything on it in 6 days. Harry Potter has nothing on it. The truth without compromise! You're having a laugh are you not?
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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:11 pm

I am in quite a good mood, but not actually laughing. Every major religion has a mass of 'cultural accretions', and an insight into the nature of things at it's heart.

Buddism looks like a lot of humming at statues, but at it's heart is the idea that a composite of intelligence and intuition diligently applied can solve the problems of human life.

Jainism involves people dying of preventable diseases, but at it's heart is an acceptance of the duty of care that we have for all living things.

Hinduism seems to involve a lot of painfully thin people doing strange things, at it's heart is appreciation, acceptance and reverence for all that exists.

Christianity involves a lot of standing up and sitting down, but at it's heart is identification with the power of forgiveness and love that sustains and renews life.

Islam involves a lot of problems one way and another, at it's heart is obedience to the will of whoever is the author or interpreter of the Koran.

Bahaism is theoretically so well organised and demanding that it's almost impossible to do in practice, but at it's heart is a sincere wish to make sense of all religions.

Other religions are available.

Believe what you will, but to judge and dismiss any religion, by its' cultural accretions, as a ship of fools, can mean missing the point. They are all worth understanding to some extent, as they provide insight into how the world works, and why people do the things they do.

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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  Atlas on Fri Jan 27, 2017 3:53 pm

People do what they do because they have the capabilities to be people and all that such imbues. We are a 'beast' with a more calculating brain than the rest of the 'beasts'. And as such we calculate that survival over all other beasts means having the capacity to eradicate those other beasts if needs must - or sometimes just for the hell of it. Psychology explains, to its best advantage, why people do what people do. There's nothing mystical about it. Nor does it require mystical provisions.
As I said before religions give some a quiet comfort that they seem unable to find from daily life - Ah well - t'is the will of God don't you know. And as such there's nothing to be done so ignore it and move on. Perhaps as well there are others who accept what we are, where we are and how we are.Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:51 pm

We humans are a 'beast' species with the ability to overkill everything and everyone, we need to be a bit thoughtful about what we do.

On Churches inviting Muslims to adress congregations with Koran verses opposing and denying Christian beliefs, it's a stupid thing to do that unnecessarily opens up an area for conflict. Neither religion is going to change it's core beliefs, so they are better to co-exist rather than one try to deny, displace, absorb or subjugate the other.

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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  Atlas on Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:05 pm

Indeed- but religions are not passive products. The need for each religion to enhance and propagate in order to continue its own particular belief structures (which often become -power structures) is a vital and necessary ingredient. It's also easier to 'pinch' each others supplicants as each new member is already 'tuned' to yet more mystical answers to mystical questions. Islam has a quest to encompass the world and makes no secret to this effect. As did Christianity before it. This 'plastic' attempt to co-exist is no different from previous attempts and like those will collapse before the messianic intransigences of the individual faiths as they push forward for 'position'. Religion is politics by other means. A quest for power and control and as I have said before - we have enough crap from just politics without making things even worse by the increasing nonsense of religions.Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  johnb on Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:33 pm

Atlas wrote: Religion is politics by other means.

More correctly, politics is religion by other means...
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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  Atlas on Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:12 pm

Either way up is down -. Both are thought process and belief inspired. Personally haven't got time for either in general terms but I do realise that society cannot prosper without disciplines and directions and consequently I prefer to take that which I can 'see' and influence, albeit minimally, in order to survive amongst all else.
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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:55 pm

Turkey annoyed with Europe. clown

"The English have a custom, on Christmas they eat what they call "Turkey". Imagine! They call it "Turkey" and they serve as food at the table. This shows the kind of hatred that is deeply rooted in the west. They serve the Turkish, Ottoman, Muslim man as food at the table for entertainment and as a sign they have slaughtered him."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEAp9vpdKGg

Is the translation correct, or, is someone having a laugh?

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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  Atlas on Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:33 pm

I would say the translation is correct - although I'm no expert. The Man is obviously demented and hasn't a clue regarding the subject of 'turkey at Christmas' or Thanksgiving Day in the USA. It's the usual bilge that his sort chant out for the masses whereby a lie or not is irrelevant providing it does the job of enticing the people to Islamic Jihad. As it is religious I wouldn't normally see such tripe - but on this occasion it was necessary. Corruptive power has many degrees of criminality - this sort of Islamic bilge is about as bad as it gets and lies neatly and comfortably alongside Nazism. Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:30 am

After the attack on Westminster, there are many questions. In our overcrowded towns and cities we've accepted heavy traffic becoming heavier and faster, and more and more pedestrians, within inches of each other. It's very dangerous.

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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  Atlas on Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:31 pm

Being alive is very dangerous - and not getting any less so as the years flow by. The century of the 'Terrorist wars' has a long way to go yet and won't end until religion becomes a dirty word and we are no longer dependant on oil and the oil states no longer dependant on the revenue that flows -. Or - some other larger catastrophe overtakes the planet and all efforts turn towards a minimal survival. Whichever is the soonest. Razz
I therefore don't much care about the machinations of the few and towards whatever misery they bring. It pales into insignificance as regards the coming realities. Life is just a bowl of cherries, sweet at the onset which a stony result. Wink Wink Wink
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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:06 am

Sad  One aspect of the Islamisation in europe that a lot of people have been unhappy about for years, is halal slaughter.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/outcry-after-undercover-film-exposes-brutality-of-halal-industry-10019467.html

This recently from a slaughterhouse near Burnley, horrible to see, don't watch it. Can we go back to stunning animals before slaughter after Brexit?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr5oyFSrZ9I

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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  Atlas on Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:47 pm

There's only one real answer. And we all know what that is. Don't we? Slaughter no matter how it is done is cruel - in the sense that the object of slaughter always knows it's coming. I know. I was there.
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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:11 pm

If you mean the only answer is for everyone to not eat meat, we have to accept that isn't going to happen. The cruelty we see in slaughterhouse videos taken by animal welfare organisations is unnecessary, and shameful. Even though animals may sense they are about to be slaughtered, it can, and should, be done much less horribly and painfully.

The hurried, mechanised, conveyor belt type process is a problem in itself, when, as seen in the videos, that is combined with incompetently applied halal procedures and poorly supervised slaughterhouse workers of low intelligence taking pleasure in cruelty, this is a foul disgrace on everyone involved.

So, what's the answer? Apparently this is an area of concern beyond the effective reach of national regulation or legislation. Local councils could, if they wished or cared, take a closer interest or pride in what happens on their own patch? Certainly my opinion of the town of Burnley, where the slaughterhouse in the news is, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr5oyFSrZ9I has plummeted somewhat.

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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  Atlas on Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:06 pm

It's all about money and profits. The slaughtering is done with maximum throughput in mind and to put in place such things as 'care' and 'attention' would cost too much unless regulated properly, which would cost too much, which would put up the price of meat to the consumer, which would cost too much. - And we are back at square one with 'costs' versus 'outputs' and back to the 'money'.

Of course if we perceived that the cruelty and the value of a meat diet wasn't in the public's interest as with 'smoking' for example we could hike the prices to eventually outlaw the practices of killing and eating meat. Are you brave enough - - - - . Rolling Eyes Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink Wink
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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:31 pm

Meat is cheap, even so, many people can't afford to eat well. Many might be willing to eat less and pay more for meat to reduce cruelty.

Much could be done at little expense to reduce the cruelty in slaughterhouses, some of it is gratuitous, deliberate and basically criminal. Recruiting better slaughterpersons and more willingness to prosecute when necessary would help. If slaughterpersons find the work affects their mental state and they become brutal, they should be removed from the job and given mental health support. It's a job that must require some strength of character to do it well and responsibly.

It's a scandal that's been going on for many years, partly because people don't want to think about it. At some point, the scandal will break. Whether that will lead to improvements is at question. The officials supposedly responsible for standards need a wake up call.

Too many people needing feeding, the UK is basically overcrowded and badly organised to cope, standards of care of all kinds are under pressure.

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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  Atlas on Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:49 pm

For there to be the emphasis on 'more care' we must first eradicate the human race - all else is futile.

Your ask is too great. Man himself lives by the laws of the jungle and in fact goes beyond that stage as he kills for fun whereby the vast majority of the jungle's inhabitants only kill to survive.

As laudable as your sentiments may be - we are not intelligent enough to make them work. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  cyfrifia on Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:11 pm

Civilisations rise and fall, they have to be continuously developed, defended, repaired, re-built. Not everyone is interested, but, somebody has to do it.  Smile

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Re: Islam in Europe.

Post  Atlas on Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:38 pm

Why?
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Re: Islam in Europe.

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