Just an idea

The funerals of the two policewomen killed in a gun and grenade attack were today and yesterday.

Greater Manchester Police cover a huge area, including Rochdale. The crime in Manchester is pretty fierce, also pretty unpleasant in Rochdale. My idea is that Rochdale councillors and politicians could get together and have a really good think about proposing a new policing approach, and for Rochdale to be used as a testing area for G.M.P.

The first advantage of this is that it would attract the attention of Greater Manchester Police. It would demonstrate that the people of Rochdale want to be policed better and more effectively. It may also serve very useful in trying out new and more effective policing methods, such as may be suggested and requested by the public.

Rochdale can either trundle along as it is, in the wake of Manchester, with an unpleasant crime rate, and some very unpleasant crime, or it can put itself forward as a town that takes quality of life and protection of the citizen seriously, and is prepared to go the extra mile of effort to achieve it.

This idea may not be very popular with criminals and those who do not like the police, but perhaps we will see how big a percentage of the population of Rochdale that is. At the moment it would appear, from the news etc that most of Rochdale are armed robbers, muggers and child groomers, but that's not really the image, or the reality that the decent people of Rochdale can be very happy with.

So my idea is to use this time when many must be reflecting on the problems and sacrifices of policing the Greater Manchester Area, to show willing to build a better society from, frankly the ruins of what used to be.

Or another idea is for members of the public to be involved in any meeting as well not just Cllrs, MPs etc. As we are the ones who witnesses, victims of crime on a daily basis all around the Greater Manchester area not just Rochdale.

There are already area forums where peopel in power attend including PCSOs and Police Officers. Have you attended these? It would be a starting point to voice your concerns. I know I have attended the odd one where I can.

Although I would disagree strongly with the news that 'most of Rochdale' are criminals etc. I would rather say that a percentage of Rochdale are criminals. Thee are many Towns up and down the country with a crime problems. Its just that the crimes are so terrible, such as the child grooming/sex case, that it will bring Rochdale to the fore front straight away with the press and also bring in the extreme groups to protest in our Town.

As for my thoughts on effective Policing. I have already mentioned some ideas over on the thread about the terrible attack on the young lady enjoying a night out. More visable policing in all areas of Rochdale. I dont think I have seen a uniformed officer on the beat in Newhey in months and months. Zero tolerance. Proper sentencing used. Such as life is life and not ten years. Common sense stuff.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply Chill. It's true the public generally can and should drive changes, not just politicians. At the moment, there does seem to be an opportunity at political level to negotiate better policing for Rochdale, partly because of the general mood following the murders of police officers.

When the public get themselves organised in a way that co-incides and chimes in with the mood at political level, big changes for the better can be made.

At political level, this can be about the policing relationship between Rochdale and Manchester. If Rochdale can promote itself as a 'test bed' for new policing methods which can be 'rolled out' over Manchester if they prove effective.

This in itself would bring more focused police activity into Rochdale, and, if things go well, a sense of progress.

I fail to see how this is a political issue, unless you start taking into effect the cuts etc

I thought Rochdale was already under the banner of GMP and ergo we all get the same type of policing. Or maybe that is my wishful thinking!

As for 'test bed' what is there to test? The Police have all the tools do their job as far as I can tell. Just that we dont have enough of them on the streets (see my preivous statement on cuts) giving a visable deterrent. And once criminals are up before the bench have them sentenced to the full stretch and not released after half is served etc. Then, again my view, if someone is about to rob a house or any crime they know that when caught and convicted they know they are going away for a set period of time no ifs or buts.

It's political in the sense that under this particular government, police numbers are falling by thousands, after the last government had increased numbers by thousands. So it begins to become even more imperative that the police use their falling resources better and better. Next month there will be a new ELECTED police commissioner so hopefully he/she will do a good job overall in the allocation of funds etc.

Might be an idea to ask if they are willing to come to a public meeting in Rochdale for the public to be able to ask them questions and listen to their ideas. Also I am sure you will be able to ask the candidates their views, so why don't you do that. I hope that those who ask questions and post their views on here will actually vote for someone, ok cyfrifia?

More information here--http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-19551775

So we are now adding another tier of officialdom by an elected Police Commissioner also drawing a salary out of a very empty Police budget pot.

Ah well, you don't follow my drift entirely Chill, I'm reacting to the police funerals in Manchester, a big and tragic event, a time for rethink on policing in the G.M.P. area and how Rochdale can fit in to that, to everyones' best benefit. With the introduction of elected police commissioners as well, it's potentially a time of changes, could be for better or worse.

Making policies in response to such a tragic would be wrong and stupid. Governments have made such decisions and usually they have been bad decisions.

On the question of police commissioner, I don't know if it's a good or bad thing, but that's what the government wanted and what's going to happen. Whether or not there will be a cut down on police authority numbers I don't know. Still though the reality is that that's the new system and if people want to see things ran differently the new person will be the one who will need convincing as well as the Chief Superintendent. Not sure what areas of policy/operations each one is responsible for.

cyfrifia wrote:Ah well, you don't follow my drift entirely Chill, I'm reacting to the police funerals in Manchester, a big and tragic event, a time for rethink on policing in the G.M.P. area and how Rochdale can fit in to that, to everyones' best benefit. With the introduction of elected police commissioners as well, it's potentially a time of changes, could be for better or worse.

Yes the murders of the two brave WPC's was a very tragic, but abiet, a very rare occurance. I can only assume you are angling to perhaps arming every Police Officer with weapons other than Tasers and Pepper Spray. That point is slight askew of this topic thread.

I'm not taking anything form these horrific murders but when ever a life of a serving Police Officer is lost in this way there is always discussions or polls for our Police Force to be readily armed at all times. So is this what you are referring to by changes to the style of Policing? As this would not just affect Rochdale but EVERY Town in the GMP area of service as well as the rest of the UK as a whole. As I said before any massive cahnges in the style of GMP Police tactics would happened at an instance accross the area once it was passed by GMP HQ. Or are you suggesting Rochdale HQ is operating on a lag and we are suffering as a result?


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Reviewing police methods in the wake of the recent murders of two policewomen may seem "stupid", but we should bear in mind that those murders are only the tip of an iceberg of what goes on in policing some areas of Manchester, part of a series of murders and of residential areas being increasingly affected by gang culture and becoming more difficult to police.

What the government want is not something that should be allowed to dominate police policy, the more politics and policing are separate, the better, as a rule. You fail to see how policing is a political issue. What I said was confusing, to clarify, I advocate involvement from local government, but very wary of central government.

The police are already armed in some situations. What could be reviewed there is the balance between unarmed policing by consent and, the practical need for police officers to defend the lives of either themselves or of the public.

No, I'm not, as you seem to think, suggesting Rochdale gets a lesser service from G.M.P., just that crime is a big problem for Rochdale. New policing methods can just be changes of emphasis to suit local conditions.

The possible reluctance of G.M.P. to act against ethnic groups has been called into question as a result of the grooming cases. The tolerance of drunken violence in deference to the importance of the night time alcohol based leisure economy could be questioned. There are things to think about in how our society is policed, and those things change as society and circumstances do.

The recent death of police officers should not be a reason to shy away from reviewing these matters. Reducing the crime rate now with better methods could reduce the amount of crime and therefore the cost of policing in the future.

Sorry, please point out anywhere in my post(s) that I implied that any review was "stupid" as you put it or even inferred it in my replies back to you?

I have already stated in past posts that we have a lot of the tools in relation to handing out punishments for those that are found guilty. So why are we (UK) not using them to the full effect? The Judges have the power to jail people for life, yet we read of people being released after serving a fraction of their tarriff. We even have people like the mass murderer Peter Sutcliffe appealing for release! Sorry life is life end off. Not hard to understand really.

Crime is a big issue for any Town not just Rochdale but any where in the UK. Show me a Town where crime isnt an issue. I do see where Police can involve politics. Ive already referenced cuts that have been instigated by the current Goverment in a past post. Oh and of course an MP insutling a serivng Police Officer as well!

Yes Police are armed in areas. Such as Airports and the teams shown responding to the horrific murders of the two brave WPC's. But as Police statements these past few weeks have indicated is arming Police a good idea? Lets compare our figures to those of armed Police forces around the world? Does it halt crime. Or does it instill a 'fear' in criminals that if they commit an offence that a responding Police unit will have lethal capability? Do you advocate the full arming of Police. I am in two minds. I feel that in certain areas, such as those handful I have referenced, then yes. But in others- it could lead to a massive escalation in your local hoodlums/criminals arming themselves. A form of arms race for want of a better word. But it s my view that the real experts as those of the serving Police Force who are on the front line not someone like me or you that dont ever have to face these situations on a daily basis.

It is very correct that all bodies involved in the Sex Abuse case need to be brought to book. Already we have had a review. Comments on the relevant thread on here go into a lot more detail.

Sorry Chill, got the posters mixed up, sorry.

cyfrifia wrote:Sorry Chill, got the posters mixed up, sorry.

Ok no problem.

Resources are scarce, budgets are tight, Rochdale is deprived. Public and politicians of Rochdale need to fight tooth and nail, whatever it takes, in a political sense, for a fair share and for what is needed. Policing is just one thing.

Rochdale does rank highly in the deprivation ranks. I was quite cutting over on RO about our Council and cut backs. As on the one hand we have massive cut backs then on the other hand we had the £50m new office block raised in double quick time that is too big for our Councils needs.

You have to understand the nature of the 'Grant' chill37 and how grants work before stating a preference that, in this case, would not have been applicable. Grants are made through a process of perceived 'need' or 'merit' or 'entitlement'. When 'granted' and 'accepted' they are then calculated on 'expenditure' for that financial year and cannot be altered in any way which would 'screw up' the figures. Monies for grants 'must not' be returned or 'transfered' as this throws out the fiscal calculations for the year and would have to be re-calculated thus causing yet more confusion and costs to the exchequer and treasury. Now do you understand WHY you cannot have individual or even a collective preference on what 'monies' should be spent on? You cannot send money back once it has been allocated. You must retain your annual budgets within the income and expenditure brackets given from the previous years calculations. Have you ever tried to 'reduce' a grant and 'return' money once it has been allocated? I have. They don't like it. Indeed they throw wobblers like you wouldn't believe and then suggest you 'find' a reason to spend the 'spare' cash that fits in with your grant application otherwise they may not look kindly on any other applications you may wish to put in at some later date. The last sentence is never spoken - simply inferred.