Outrageous council tax rise proposed

Rochdale Borough Council is proposing to increase Council Tax by an outrageous 3.5% next year.

The steep rise will hit very hard given the latest official figures reveal average pay has been cut in real terms by more than 3.5% as salary increases have failed to keep pace with inflation.

In 2009, before Labour took control of the Council, Councillor Colin Lambert, commenting on the then Lib Dem council's proposed 3.7% council tax rise, said: "Their council tax rise of 3.7% is outrageous in the current economic climate." Despite the worsening economic climate, Councillor Lambert, now the leader of the council, appears to have changed his tune.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/127/council-watch/76492/outrageous-council-tax-rise-proposed

According to this http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/council_tax_65 R.M.B.C. is owed several millions in unpaid council tax.

The poll tax, or it's later version, council tax has always been problematic. In Mrs. Thatchers's time, it cost a lot more to administer than it raised in revenue, and only served to annoy and distress people. More recently councils have failed to collect it from some people, and so run up huge debts, which then have to be paid for by raising the tax on those who do pay. Altogether a very annoying tax.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZZHgwyqsnE

They would complain about any tax - poll or property though.

What annoys me is that this is not the council's money.

They are supposed to be custodians (or trustees) of the public purse, not showboating in the battle between local and national government.

Our council is hoping that, with the fallow year meaning they are not going to be called to account now, they will be swept back to power on a wave of anti-Tory feeling. I hope fervently the public is not that gullible and treats this inept local administration with the contempt and disdain they deserve.

And what exactly will we get back with this increase?

Oh thats right, nothing but more cuts and more rises!

Chill37 wrote:And what exactly will we get back with this increase?

Oh thats right, nothing but more cuts and more rises!

This is going to cause so much distress to an already struggling majority no-one can tighten their belts any-more than they already have had to
I agree with Chill with all the cutbacks and many more to come what can we expect from the increase ? dear me what a mess.

People will survive no matter what. Comparatively, things are still far better than they were in the thirties.

Whether we should have to endure it is another issue entirely.

johnb wrote:People will survive no matter what. Comparatively, things are still far better than they were in the thirties.

Whether we should have to endure it is another issue entirely.

People are not surviving though johnb suicide is at the highest figures already ? and we are in the 20th century our young ones don't know or care about the thirties and why should they???
Stop sending silly money to China & such like countries concentrate on our own who are struggling and suffering

Your generation promised my generation an unsustainable dream. Your generation have retired with their pensions, mine will not be able to afford to.

I can't help it that your generation was incompetent at maths and had no concept of what their fiscal policies would do for the future.

I know my generation is picking up the tab. I know it is going to get work and will do so whoever is in government.

johnb wrote:Your generation promised my generation an unsustainable dream. Your generation have retired with their pensions, mine will not be able to afford to.

I can't help it that your generation was incompetent at maths and had no concept of what their fiscal policies would do for the future.

I know my generation is picking up the tab. I know it is going to get work and will do so whoever is in government.

It is a great deal more complicated than that johnb. Your analogy is somewhat screwed up. The generation that profited most from the changes brought about after the war were in fact my father's generation, most of whom have now passed on or are about to - and by no means all of them - probably no more than half would have benefited substantially from the 'pensions' to which you refer. My generation, and I suspect jeanie's, have benefited from those changes insomuch as we were included in the figures which you quote but we were not responsible for their inception. As for maths and fiscal calculations only smart ar*** bankers do those sorts of in-depth sums/shenanigans and then only to benefit themselves not the masses. It is disingenuous to lay the blame at the feet of those below the top who, lets face it, have no real power or say in what the governments of the day do - in their name. The 'real' blame for what happened in 2008 lies 90% at the feet of the financial institutions who fraudulently manipulated the markets. The rest at the feet of governments who didn't understand the system and allowed a culpable and lamentable lack of controls. These include ALL the political parties who governed from 1984 onwards - not just jeanie's or hinch's. If you want to beat someone up for the mess try All of us - for allowing and making it possible for such cretins to govern us in the first place.

As for a 3.7% increase in your 2013 rates - I'm amazed it's not more. And as for surviving. You will. We always do. Because we have no choice. The alternatives are certainly less attractive.

But 2008 was simply the conclusion.

The causes go back to the poisonous industrial relations of the 70s which led inevitably to the retreat from manufacturing into asset stripping and property speculation in the 80s and beyond.

This corporate approach we see to all industry and services now would have been nowhere near as pervasive if we had not divorced wealth from wealth creation. The bankers and accountants would have remained servants not become masters and towns would still have Town Clerks managing the assets.

johnb wrote:Your generation promised my generation an unsustainable dream. Your generation have retired with their pensions, mine will not be able to afford to.

I can't help it that your generation was incompetent at maths and had no concept of what their fiscal policies would do for the future.

I know my generation is picking up the tab. I know it is going to get work and will do so whoever is in government.

My generation Johnb ! are you really 20 years younger than me ???

R.M.B.C. and other councils have already lost millions in council tax revenue by failing to collect it. As council tax rises, partly because of that, the unfairness between those who pay and those who don't becomes even more of a contrast.

johnb wrote:People will survive no matter what. Comparatively, things are still far better than they were in the thirties.

Whether we should have to endure it is another issue entirely.

we are struggling to survive as it is. Things cut to the bone, This obscene rise will cut through the bone for some. I forsee more food banks and the one we have pushed to its limit in Rochdale.

This increase will tip a lot of families over the edge into poverty.

I'd be very interested to hear your definition of poverty.

Are we going to see the distended stomachs and emancipated limbs of Sub-Saharan Africa?

I doubt it very much.

I am not saying things are not going to be harder for some, but to describe this as poverty, in absolute terms, is gross debasement of language.

That is a little unfair. I do not want to see poverty anywhere, but lets have a realistic definition.

I also don't subscribe to the view that industry should be allowed to pay less to improve their returns.

Mark well though; there are working class pigs with snouts in troughs. Look at the annual pay of recently striking tube drivers and weep. I don't see much solidarity here, and until what is taken out of the pot by the greedy - and I mean the bankers as much as the workers who ruined the game before, there is not going to be enough around to keep everyone in a fair and equitable standard of living.

The truth of the matter is People really are living in poverty which is disgusting who on earth would have thought that "food banks" were so much needed in this day and age it is unbelievable that we have had to resort to this.
Yet Britain still sends money to places like China to pay for missiles and the like not to feed the families !
It is high time the saying "charity begins at home" was put into force and we looked after our needy as there is very genuine suffering right here and to top it of with higher council tax rises is a joke when the services we are paying for are being whittled down.
Yes cuts have to be made but it is the most vulnerable who are being hit the hardest has any council in the land stood up to government ? the answer is no because as long as it carry s on the more they slag each other of on who's fault it is!

I'm with johnb on that one. Poverty is relative and I don't see poverty like we did with some in the 1950's. Which does not mean to say however that some are going without many of the basics the rest of us take as a right and for granted.
I know time moves on and we have come to expect more, but spare a thought for those who have never had it so good and are not likely to for decades to come whilst we fret over a 3.7% increase from our meagre incomes. We knew (from 2008 and some of us from before that) the time was coming when the 'piper' would have to be paid for the foolishness of the 'boom'. Let's just hope it doesn't get any worse. Keep smiling.

johnb wrote:I'd be very interested to hear your definition of poverty.

Are we going to see the distended stomachs and emancipated limbs of Sub-Saharan Africa?

I doubt it very much.

I am not saying things are not going to be harder for some, but to describe this as poverty, in absolute terms, is gross debasement of language.

Bit extreme claiming poverty is a gross debasement of language.

However, my view of poverty is probably in line with others More and more food banks popping up. Parents going with out meals to feed their kids. Only heating one room in periods of cold, although that happens now, but I suspect more and more will be doing it. Yet millions of pounds go to other developed countries. Why is that then , when we have stories day in day out of cutbacks here there and everywhere.

My question still stands, what will we get from RMBC with this massive increase in Council Tax? Maybe bin collections once a month. Or maybe our bins not emptied at all and we do it all ourselves(I jest not considering our bins are not even being changed well into next year)

Jeanie wrote:It is high time the saying "charity begins at home" was put into force and we looked after our needy as there is very genuine suffering right here and to top it of with higher council tax rises is a joke when the services we are paying for are being whittled down.

This foreign aid business is very iffy. The amount of aid money is only a small percentage of national spending, but it makes a mockery of the situation here where the elderly are not being looked after properly. If we are to believe the critics of the aid industry, it's not as if the it definitely does any good to anyone. Almost every article about foreign aid, even by people in the countries where it goes to is very critical of it's negative effect. Private charities do better. Giving to charity should be by choice. If the government could put forward a reasonable argument or explanation that the money was being well spent, people would accept it, but it doesn't.

cyfrifia wrote:

Jeanie wrote:It is high time the saying "charity begins at home" was put into force and we looked after our needy as there is very genuine suffering right here and to top it of with higher council tax rises is a joke when the services we are paying for are being whittled down.

This foreign aid business is very iffy. The amount of aid money is only a small percentage of national spending, but it makes a mockery of the situation here where the elderly are not being looked after properly. If we are to believe the critics of the aid industry, it's not as if the it definitely does any good to anyone. Almost every article about foreign aid, even by people in the countries where it goes to is very critical of it's negative effect. Private charities do better. Giving to charity should be by choice. If the government could put forward a reasonable argument or explanation that the money was being well spent, people would accept it, but it doesn't.

Giving to charity is a personal thing which will always carry on but it is time Britain stopped sending billions abroad when it is needed at home !
This Government should be ashamed that "Food Banks" have had to be enforced here at home in our home town's and cities

These things add up to an impression that not only this government, but UK governments for many years are not interested enough in, or working for, the well being and future of the people that live here in the UK. That has consequences. If people feel that the government is at best disinterested in, and at worst hostile to them and to their interests, and nothing can be elected that's any better, where does that leave us? I never did get round to reading 'The decline and fall of the Roman Empire'. If I had, I might know the answer.

Chill37 wrote:My question still stands, what will we get from RMBC with this massive increase in Council Tax?

Council leader Colin Lambert said "I don’t think people on the street realise the amount of money that central government is taking away from Rochdale."

Doesn't look like the people of Rochdale can expect to actually get anything from the rise in council tax.

cyfrifia wrote:

Chill37 wrote:My question still stands, what will we get from RMBC with this massive increase in Council Tax?

Council leader Colin Lambert said "I don’t think people on the street realise the amount of money that central government is taking away from Rochdale."

Doesn't look like the people of Rochdale can expect to actually get anything from the rise in council tax.

Well of course not!!!!! You can't take a chunk out of the budget and replace it with a morsel and expect SOMETHING better!!!! There will be cuts as well. I'm not surprised few on here didn't understand the 'collapse', how it came about or what the consequences would be asking questions or making surprised statements like that. You should have known all this cyfrifia from 2008 onwards (if not before).