More massive NHS cuts

Jeanie Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:25 am

Here we go again will they not learn ?

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/health/s/1590509_exclusive-general-hospitals-facing-the-axe-in-massive-nhs-shake-up

What a mess !

johnb Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:27 pm

So properly organised, structured provision, with extended local care from the GPs is a bad thing?

what then is a general hospital on every corner but a duplication of scarce rsource. It was one thing when all most patients needed was food and rst, but we have moved on since that.

Provided that services are changed in an ordered and orderly manner, putting the needs of patients first, I don't see a problem.

UP THE DALE Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:43 pm

Until new proposals are made and delivered we won't know if it's a good or bad thing. With less resources/cuts in budgets, the NHS has to make good with what it's got. Hopefully as little as possible will go to the private firms to make money out of the NHS. Like I have said before, so long as facilities are not closed before new ones are ready to operate in their place, and they are not too difficult to get to, it might not be a bad thing necessarily for certain units to close, so long as the overall provision does not drop, unless no longer required.

Hinch Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:55 pm

johnb wrote:So properly organised, structured provision, with extended local care from the GPs is a bad thing?

No, it isn't but the existing level of service can't cope so further massive reductions will certainly make it worse.

GPs should do what they do best and look after patients in a primary healthcare environment NOT run and manage secondary, macro-managed hospital-based services.

GPs should always have a very important role to play in helping to shape all local health services but actually running them is a wholly different matter. Fools rush in etc. Many, many GPs are wholly against these proposals but their voices are being ignored by politicians.

We need time to study and assess how GP-commissioned services will actually work before we start slashing and burning hospital services. When they are gone it will be too late to realise we've made a mistake.

Jeanie Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:36 pm

What more can they take away from the Rochdale Infirmary???

And it wasn't too long ago it was announced huge changes to Fairfield' s A&E and that it was NOT under threat of closure!

The effect it already has had on the existing units has been tremendous staff can't cope and are under huge stress many are leaving a profession they so once loved I have yet to speak to one member of staff who is happy.

Transport still remains a major issue for many patients, visitors and staff

UP THE DALE Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:42 pm

Agree with that Hinch. As far as I am concerned, I find it appalling that the NHS is now facing big cuts, and I do believe that GPs should concentrate on doing what they do best, being doctors not managers.

Reorganisation of services is ok IF overall services don't decline, and are still reasonably accessible. What is accessible though for one person might not be for someone else. I am not convinced the closing of A and E services at Rochdale Infirmary have adequately been replaced yet same with maternity.

Sadly this government wants the NHS broken up, because they have never believed in it.

Hinch Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:21 pm

Yes UTD but JohnB isn't completely on the wrong track. For the NHS to work best and in the interests of patients we need a wealth of skills and talents. We need good managers who understand the complexities of handling enormous budgets but we need them to do this hand in hand with clinicians such as GPs who really understand the service.

GP on their own would be a disaster as would managers without access to clinical know-how and experience with power-sharing responsibility.

Keep your eye on Rochdale Online for more insights into this.

Access is a massive issue for some people and affects us all differently. Yes, the latest reports acknowledge this as did 'Healthy Futures' and 'Making it Better' but what was done? Sod all!

Perhaps we need a Patients Champion to sort it out? We did have one but unfortunately, he is in the slammer and can't be reached.

There is plenty of scope for centres of excellence but we need them to run alongside good basic services; preferably accessible locally.

Like it or not, cost considerations will always play a part. This is after all public money but a lot of people believe this is all what it is about yet they still pay the CEOs nudging £200K per year and directors £120 - £150 K. It's bloody obscene.

Guest Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:18 pm

UP THE DALE wrote:Sadly this government wants the NHS broken up, because they have never believed in it.

I preface the comment I am about to make with the fact that I have become thoroughly disillusioned with all political parties, local politics in Rochdale has well and truly seen to that BUT, with the greatest of respect, Up The Dale, you are talking absolute rubbish. I do not believe this government, or any other for that matter, wants or has wanted to break up the NHS, and it is high time this type of political nonsense was consigned to the bin.

johnb Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:28 pm

I don't believe in the NHS as it stands at the moment and I am no tory.

It's not fit for purpose and serves the managers rather than the patients.

Perhaps starting again might be the answer.

Hinch Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:28 am

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/74010/infirmary-threatened-in-new-nhs-shakeup

Some parts of the NHS work extremely well JB and provides some of the best and most accessible healthcare in the world. The Rheumatology Centre at the Infirmary is a good example and I seem to recall Tinkerbell praising the Urgent Treatment Centre there when she had a bad fall last year.

Pennine's vascular surgery unit, the hepato-biliary, vascular surgery and the facio-maxillary unit are amongst the best in the country. The two week cancer target saves lives on a daily basis. One of the BIG problems with the NHS is the amount of political inteference in operational decisions. Clinical and managerial decisions based on skills, knowledge and expertise are set aside at the drop of a hat in the name of political expediency.

You can get the feeling of frustration felt by those at the coalface in the RO piece above.

So hard to plan a service when you don't know your budget for the year ahead until two weeks before the start of the next financial year and even then, a speech at a party conference can change your priorities and direction overnight. Time and time again, expert and scientific opinion and expertise is thrown on the bonfire in exchange for a few cheap conference soundbites.

I have dished out more than my share of criticism of the NHS and most of this is well-documented but so much of it remains good despite all the crap. No wonder Danny Boyle used it as the jewel in the Olympic opening ceremony crown. The biggest problem is the permanent state of flux it is in as referred to in the RO piece.

UP THE DALE Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:08 pm

Journeaux wrote:
UP THE DALE wrote:Sadly this government wants the NHS broken up, because they have never believed in it.
I preface the comment I am about to make with the fact that I have become thoroughly disillusioned with all political parties, local politics in Rochdale has well and truly seen to that BUT, with the greatest of respect, Up The Dale, you are talking absolute rubbish. I do not believe this government, or any other for that matter, wants or has wanted to break up the NHS, and it is high time this type of political nonsense was consigned to the bin.

Like you I have become disillusioned with local politics and with national politics. But we will have to disagree on what is happening with the NHS. I believe the NHS is on it's way to be broken up, and already more profitable parts have been transferred to privateers. Much of what's happening was started by the last government. Of course though you insist in saying what I believe is "rubbish" just because it doesn't fit with your thoughts on the matter.

UP THE DALE Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:09 pm

hinch wrote:http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/74010/infirmary-threatened-in-new-nhs-shakeup

Some parts of the NHS work extremely well JB and provides some of the best and most accessible healthcare in the world. The Rheumatology Centre at the Infirmary is a good example and I seem to recall Tinkerbell praising the Urgent Treatment Centre there when she had a bad fall last year.

Pennine's vascular surgery unit, the hepato-biliary, vascular surgery and the facio-maxillary unit are amongst the best in the country. The two week cancer target saves lives on a daily basis. One of the BIG problems with the NHS is the amount of political inteference in operational decisions. Clinical and managerial decisions based on skills, knowledge and expertise are set aside at the drop of a hat in the name of political expediency.

You can get the feeling of frustration felt by those at the coalface in the RO piece above.

So hard to plan a service when you don't know your budget for the year ahead until two weeks before the start of the next financial year and even then, a speech at a party conference can change your priorities and direction overnight. Time and time again, expert and scientific opinion and expertise is thrown on the bonfire in exchange for a few cheap conference soundbites.

I have dished out more than my share of criticism of the NHS and most of this is well-documented but so much of it remains good despite all the crap. No wonder Danny Boyle used it as the jewel in the Olympic opening ceremony crown. The biggest problem is the permanent state of flux it is in as referred to in the RO piece.

Well said, Hinch.

Guest Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:14 pm

UP THE DALE wrote:
Journeaux wrote:
UP THE DALE wrote:Sadly this government wants the NHS broken up, because they have never believed in it.
I preface the comment I am about to make with the fact that I have become thoroughly disillusioned with all political parties, local politics in Rochdale has well and truly seen to that BUT, with the greatest of respect, Up The Dale, you are talking absolute rubbish. I do not believe this government, or any other for that matter, wants or has wanted to break up the NHS, and it is high time this type of political nonsense was consigned to the bin.

Like you I have become disillusioned with local politics and with national politics. But we will have to disagree on what is happening with the NHS. I believe the NHS is on it's way to be broken up, and already more profitable parts have been transferred to privateers. Much of what's happening was started by the last government. Of course though you insist in saying what I believe is "rubbish" just because it doesn't fit with your thoughts on the matter.

No Up The Dale, nothing to do with my thoughts, everything to do with what I can see with my eyes.

UP THE DALE Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:17 pm

Well we see things differently then.

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