Remembrance
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southernbelle
past it
Atlas
Dalelad
Hinch
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Remembrance
Well, I bought my cute enamel poppy. (£2.50 from under the Town Hall clock.)
This morning, I drove to the RO 'factory' and as I passed through Norden, there were a group of schoolchildren stood respectfully around the war-memorial with their teachers who seemed to be telling them why it was an important act.
I have never been comfortable with the big parades and the faintly ridiculous 'Glorious Dead' scenario but this group of kids seemed to just hit the spot for me.
Wilfred Owen 1893-1918
The title of the piece comes from the Roman poet, Horace and means, 'it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country'. Biggest load of bollocks ever written but you see it carved into war memorials everywhere.
This morning, I drove to the RO 'factory' and as I passed through Norden, there were a group of schoolchildren stood respectfully around the war-memorial with their teachers who seemed to be telling them why it was an important act.
I have never been comfortable with the big parades and the faintly ridiculous 'Glorious Dead' scenario but this group of kids seemed to just hit the spot for me.
Dulce Et Decorum Est
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.
GAS! Gas! Quick, boys! — An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, —
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.
GAS! Gas! Quick, boys! — An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime...
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues, —
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
Wilfred Owen 1893-1918
The title of the piece comes from the Roman poet, Horace and means, 'it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country'. Biggest load of bollocks ever written but you see it carved into war memorials everywhere.
Hinch- Spaceship Commander
- Posts : 1927
Join date : 2012-09-05
Location : Stradhoughton
Re: Remembrance
Spot on Hinch. Bringing God into it on Remembrance Sunday, as if it makes the sacrifices more bearable, grates on me as well.
We should have a law that any politician who can make a decision about going to war should have spent at least 6 months on a front line somewhere and seen the grim realities of war first.
We should have a law that any politician who can make a decision about going to war should have spent at least 6 months on a front line somewhere and seen the grim realities of war first.
Dalelad- Admin
- Posts : 345
Join date : 2012-09-05
Age : 59
Re: Remembrance
Yes, it might weed a few of the sods out as well DL.
Quite rare these days for our politicians to have some front-line experience.
Pity Blair didn't have any. He might have thought twice beforre sending our troops into eye-rak to help his buddy George Dubya fight his family-war.
Quite rare these days for our politicians to have some front-line experience.
Pity Blair didn't have any. He might have thought twice beforre sending our troops into eye-rak to help his buddy George Dubya fight his family-war.
Hinch- Spaceship Commander
- Posts : 1927
Join date : 2012-09-05
Location : Stradhoughton
Re: Remembrance
The pair of you are not going to draw me on that one - As I don't disagree.
Atlas- Time Lord
- Posts : 3032
Join date : 2012-09-06
Location : Wales
Re: Remembrance
Wilfed Owen's poetry is magnificent. I think he was killed a few days before the war ended, a tragedy indeed, imagine what he could have written had he lived.
For anyone interested there's plenty of literature about his relationship with Seigfeid Sassoon, another great poet, while they were together in Craiglockhart hospital in Scotland. Fascinating stuff.
One of Owen's best lines I think was "Red lips are not so red as the stained stones kissed by the English dead"
For anyone interested there's plenty of literature about his relationship with Seigfeid Sassoon, another great poet, while they were together in Craiglockhart hospital in Scotland. Fascinating stuff.
One of Owen's best lines I think was "Red lips are not so red as the stained stones kissed by the English dead"
past it- Crew
- Posts : 198
Join date : 2012-09-07
Location : Heywood
Re: Remembrance
The Soldier
Rupert Brooke
If I should die, think only this of me:
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is forever England. There shall be
In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware,
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam;
A body of England's, breathing English air,
Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home.
And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English heaven.
The Soldier
Rupert Brooke
Rupert Brooke
If I should die, think only this of me:
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is forever England. There shall be
In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware,
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam;
A body of England's, breathing English air,
Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home.
And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English heaven.
The Soldier
Rupert Brooke
southernbelle- Space Cadet
- Posts : 258
Join date : 2012-09-05
Age : 34
Location : Top Secret
Re: Remembrance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKYG2_OlNTQ&feature=youtu.be
This song says it all about the futility of war.
Lets all remember ALL the victims of all the wars, including animals.
This song says it all about the futility of war.
Lets all remember ALL the victims of all the wars, including animals.
UP THE DALE- Officer of the Watch
- Posts : 623
Join date : 2012-09-05
Location : ROCHDALE
Recent forces deaths
Remembrance used to seem a bit distant and impersonal, with grandparents being from protected occupations in WW2, and uncles not seeing much active service except NI, but now with the deaths in the Gulf and Afghanistan, surely everyone has seen reports of the fatalities and injured and thought 'they lived near me', 'they went to my school' or ' I know someone in that regiment', if not even closer experience. I work and exercise with ex-soldiers who served in recent campaigns and lost comrades. It all seems very close and relevant now.
I've just finished reading the Antony Beever book about D-Day and the Normandy invasion. It all seems so haphazard and wasteful of life, not least the huge number killed by inaccurate bombing and poor communication and co-ordination.
I've just finished reading the Antony Beever book about D-Day and the Normandy invasion. It all seems so haphazard and wasteful of life, not least the huge number killed by inaccurate bombing and poor communication and co-ordination.
Striding- Crew
- Posts : 66
Join date : 2012-09-05
Location : Shaw
Re: Remembrance
War is always chaos. Blue on blue ( injury or death by friendly fire) was always a risk and in many cases still is. (Although present and future technology may alleviate some of this.) It is always wasteful and takes no prisoners. Von Clausewitz put it beautifully - War is politics by other means -. As long as we have politics and religions (otherwise known as power politics by other means) we shall have dissension and in many cases wars as an extension. Man doesn't know any better. Fair fortune.
Atlas- Time Lord
- Posts : 3032
Join date : 2012-09-06
Location : Wales
Re: Remembrance
Thge Rupert Brooke poemis a good one but not a great one in my opinion. War without the blood and horror and set within a wholly English context. Bugger the English, Welsh and Irish and particularly the Late Private J. Foreigner.
Dulce et Decorum Est points out the lie involved in dying a 'glorious' hero's death.
Brooke says something other. After all, when you have been blown apart by a shell; whether from 'friendly fire' or not, does it really matter where they bury the bits they managed to scrape together in a tin helmet?
Dulce et Decorum Est points out the lie involved in dying a 'glorious' hero's death.
Brooke says something other. After all, when you have been blown apart by a shell; whether from 'friendly fire' or not, does it really matter where they bury the bits they managed to scrape together in a tin helmet?
Hinch- Spaceship Commander
- Posts : 1927
Join date : 2012-09-05
Location : Stradhoughton
Re: Remembrance
For me Brooke speaks of the blind patriotism of the the soldier who volunteered for King and Country in 1914-18 in that poem. Agreed that the propaganda and media were largely responsible for the romantised feelings about the war, but nevertheless and very large number of the "common" soldiers did honestly believe in the King and Country thing. The view that to be born English was to be born with a silver spoon in the lottery of birthrights is a feeling of that era, and sadly most patriotism is considered unPC or even downright offensive these days. I dont hold the view that the English are better than any others, but our younger generation dont seem to have pride or feeling in their native country these days.
southernbelle- Space Cadet
- Posts : 258
Join date : 2012-09-05
Age : 34
Location : Top Secret
Re: Remembrance
Many don't even seem to know what their native country is anymore SB.
Mind you, with all the devolution stuff that's been going on in recent years, it's hardly surprising.
Mind you, with all the devolution stuff that's been going on in recent years, it's hardly surprising.
Minute silence
After my Military Fitness class this morning, at 11:00 we had a minute silence, led by the ex-army instructor. In another part of the field in the park, a large group of Jewish lads were playing football, which added to the poignancy and made me think how differently things could have turned out. One bloke in the class had a poppy T-shirt : 'All gave some; some gave all'
Very busy at the cenotaph in Middleton as I went past a bit later.
Very busy at the cenotaph in Middleton as I went past a bit later.
Striding- Crew
- Posts : 66
Join date : 2012-09-05
Location : Shaw
Re: Remembrance
Rembrance is precisely that. Remembering family and friends, and the wider number of people who have died so that we might have freedom - both to praise and to criticise.
In whatever stage of history - going back into pre-written history - and in whatever country there is always felt a need to remember the dead in either a personal or national context. In order to give expression to rembrance people go to a place designated for rembrance, whether it is a personal grave or a national memorial. Always in these events, again whether personal or national an element of reverance or religion comes about. It is a part of a person's psyche.
It is up to each individual as to how they respect their dead - but they will surely do so one way or another. They will do it wherever their focal point of rembrance is, their home, the local cemetry, a towns' memorial or a national memorial. It does not even really matter what day it is but it is logical that if there is a natioanl day of rembering there will be a national meeting point to hold those celebrations.
In whatever stage of history - going back into pre-written history - and in whatever country there is always felt a need to remember the dead in either a personal or national context. In order to give expression to rembrance people go to a place designated for rembrance, whether it is a personal grave or a national memorial. Always in these events, again whether personal or national an element of reverance or religion comes about. It is a part of a person's psyche.
It is up to each individual as to how they respect their dead - but they will surely do so one way or another. They will do it wherever their focal point of rembrance is, their home, the local cemetry, a towns' memorial or a national memorial. It does not even really matter what day it is but it is logical that if there is a natioanl day of rembering there will be a national meeting point to hold those celebrations.
mary ann- Crew
- Posts : 23
Join date : 2012-09-10
Location : Heywood
Re: Remembrance
'....if there is a natioanl day of rembering...' - sorry about the spelling
mary ann- Crew
- Posts : 23
Join date : 2012-09-10
Location : Heywood
Re: Remembrance
Probably not poetry but the words of William Tecumseh Sherman sort of cover it for me.
“War is Hell”.
“War is Hell”.
Irishman- Crew
- Posts : 162
Join date : 2012-10-12
Re: Remembrance
The late great Harry Patch said it right about war
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/25/harry-patch-obituary
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/25/harry-patch-obituary
UP THE DALE- Officer of the Watch
- Posts : 623
Join date : 2012-09-05
Location : ROCHDALE
Re: Remembrance
Ah, the old yellow feathers off the XX Lancashire Fusiliers. Verygood photo.
I never liked that red and white Royal Regiment of Fusiliers cockade when they merged.
I never liked that red and white Royal Regiment of Fusiliers cockade when they merged.
Last edited by Hinch on Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hinch- Spaceship Commander
- Posts : 1927
Join date : 2012-09-05
Location : Stradhoughton
Re: Remembrance
The yellow 'hackle' as it was called, ah yes, I remember it well, my late ex-hubby was a member of the LF's
Charly- Spaceship Commander
- Posts : 1258
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Re: Remembrance
A very proud regiment with a great history.
Hinch- Spaceship Commander
- Posts : 1927
Join date : 2012-09-05
Location : Stradhoughton
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