Children removed from placement

Charly Sat Nov 24, 2012 9:41 am

Rotherham council have removed 3 children from foster parents because they are members of UKIP.
There was no concerns about the level of care they were receiving so it is purely a political matter, meanwhile 3 kids have been disrupted yet again.
What is important here, the parents political views OR the children being in a loving, caring home?
From personal experience (that'll make JohnB laugh Laughing

) of fostering, I have had mixed race children taken to a new home for their 'cultural benefit' after living with me for 2 years.
By the time they were moved they knew no other family but social workers saying as they were now free for adoption it would be for their benefit to be placed with a mixed race/black family which I agreed with although we had applied to be considered to adopt them I understood the reasons put forward.
I was more than disappointed then to meet the prospective adopters that were chosen for them, lovely, lovely childless couple BUT both white!
The other mixed race children I have fostered for one reason or another all went back to their parents

johnb Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:24 am

Much to YOUR surprise I agree with you completely.

This is monstrous - political correctness gone mad and is (I hope) illegal.

cyfrifia Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:45 am

Sounds to be along similar lines as the case mentioned in Parliament by M.P. John Hemming.

John Hemming M.P. Quote " Toni McLeod says that she is not racially prejudiced, but that children were taken from her partly because of her membership of the EDL. It was "felt that conversations and opinions may be expressed in the children’s presence". That is a 'thought police' approach to care. The system intervened because of what Toni McLeod might say in front of her children. She says that she has many friends who are Muslims and Sikhs, and that she disowns the EDL nowadays, but whether that is true or not, we should ask whether it is appropriate for the state to remove a child because children may be radicalised by a parent.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmhansrd/cm120613/debtext/120613-0003.htm#12061361002685

Taking children from people because of their political views is slippery slope.

Charly Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:55 am

Taking children away from parents at the drop of a hat (from what I've read on various web sites) is a very lucrative business!
Big bucks are involved when it comes to adoption agencies finding placements, especially for babies and children under 5.

Old Regulator Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:03 pm

A ‘slippery slope’ indeed. Are we now to expect natural parents to have to declare membership of a political party when registering birth? Are we also to believe that these foster parents read UKIP literature as bed time stories. Where is Veritas when you need him come on Carl I for one miss your view.

I assume that membership of the Monster Raving Loony Party puts me out of the frame, or does it?

Poppyanna555 Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:23 pm

You make a very valid point there Old Regulator on natural children and their parent's political leanings. How cruel to take these children away from loving homes on account of their foster parents political beliefs, not least because radicalisation must surely be happening within other communities. What about the 'teachings' that go on within many mosques and Islamic teaching schools, do you take these kids away from their natural parents too?

johnb Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:11 pm

World of difference between EDL and UKIP though.

Which is correct?

UP THE DALE Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:47 pm

Obviously the full facts are not known, but if it was just because of their membership of UKIP then it is totally wrong.

Like what JohnB says, massive difference between EDL which is a racist organisation with a large number of fascists in its membership including the leadership, and UKIP.

Irishman Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:09 pm

Nothing what so ever to do with (Political correctness) and more to do with the pressure on Social Workers to get it right, they can't win no matter what they do; it's wrong.

UP THE DALE Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:32 pm

But don't you see, a fictional thing often has to be the reason, in this case so called political correctness. The social workers in this case appear to have made a wrong decision, but until the FULL FACTS are known, no one knows why the children were taken away. IF the only reason they were taken away was due to the political party of the adults, it is stupidity.

Hinch Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:31 pm

I think it disgraceful that children should be brought up in households where extremist views are aired such as slashing funding for the homeless, the NHS etc but unfortunately many are. Very Happy

In the Rotherham case, all is not as it first appears. The council had previously been heavily criticised by a judge in the case of these same children for failing to take sufficient cogniscence of their cultural and ethnic needs in a previous fostering placement so it looks as if the council were just being particularly cautious. It seems as if 'Bad Law' might underpin this story.

If there is any PC aspect to the story it would seem that the 'cabal of social workers'; as I just heard the Sec of State describe them on Radio 4, were not to blame. It was more likely to be, the 'coven of judges'; as he described them later; without having either spoken to the council or reading the file.

The Secretery of State jumped the gun by rushing to the microphone wholly on the basis of news reports without checking the facts. What a numpty.

The EDL were mentioned earlier although it was, as we now know, a case of UKIP-fosterers. As they are the third largest political party in the UK, it would be a very slippery slope had they been taken away on that basis alone but it seems that there were other factors.

As for EDL/BNP etc being allowed to foster; having seen then 'up close and personal', I would have difficulty allowing them to breed let alone foster.

Atlas Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:24 am

Not bearing on this case or making issue but a general comment -. We, as parents, never discussed either politics or religion in front of our children. Neither did we make comments such as 'thick Red' or 'tosser Tory' or 'flabby wet Liberal' when such characters appeared on the screen in the corner or the box on the mantelpiece. The ONLY times such was discussed was when one of the children asked a question relating to the subjects and even then we tried not to make our personal views/thoughts known. I feel more needs to be known regarding this particular episode before one leaps to condemnations of 'blame' or 'praise'.
A difficult area. And as I have said before - everyone here knows my views regarding the mental 'abuse' of children.

Hinch Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:05 pm

Exactly Atlas.

Seems that there is a hunger throughout the land for PC-Brigade stories. More hard facts are needed before we jump into Daily Mail mode as the Secretary of State has done.

Trendy Lefties social workers ain't necessarily to blame for all the world's ills.

hovis Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:22 pm

If l am honest l was brought up in a house where politics were freely discussed. My mother was a Liberal and my father Labour. My father was from a long line of ardent Tory supporters. He never told his father he voted Labour, he felt that Labour looked after the country better than the Tories or the Liberal party. My Father never told us how to vote, but he always said we should vote for the party we felt was best for the country, not best for ourselves, and had no time for people who did not vote. I am one of 9 children and we do not all vote for the same political party. I feel that is was a good thing that politics was discussed and gave us an understanding of politics. My children have been brought up in a home were politics have always been discussed, and views and opinoins freely given. Politics and religion are a very important part of my life, why should my children be kept in the dark about things that are important to me, it is what has shaped my life and made me the person l am. My children are now both adults, they have made their own political and religious decisions that are not always the same as mine. I brought my children up to be thinkers not followers and in that l have been sucessful. In my opinion a house where opinions and debate on all subjects are not openly discussed would be very boring.

UP THE DALE Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:48 pm

I agree with must of that Hovis.

It's all a matter of teaching children HOW to think, not WHAT to think.

keithatrochdale Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:22 pm

I wonder if the RMBC staff that instigated the moves are the same ones mentioned here?

Sex grooming: Council staff face action over failures

Jeanie Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:04 pm

hovis wrote:If l am honest l was brought up in a house where politics were freely discussed. My mother was a Liberal and my father Labour. My father was from a long line of ardent Tory supporters. He never told his father he voted Labour, he felt that Labour looked after the country better than the Tories or the Liberal party. My Father never told us how to vote, but he always said we should vote for the party we felt was best for the country, not best for ourselves, and had no time for people who did not vote. I am one of 9 children and we do not all vote for the same political party. I feel that is was a good thing that politics was discussed and gave us an understanding of politics. My children have been brought up in a home were politics have always been discussed, and views and opinoins freely given. Politics and religion are a very important part of my life, why should my children be kept in the dark about things that are important to me, it is what has shaped my life and made me the person l am. My children are now both adults, they have made their own political and religious decisions that are not always the same as mine. I brought my children up to be thinkers not followers and in that l have been sucessful. In my opinion a house where opinions and debate on all subjects are not openly discussed would be very boring.

Brilliant post hovis I %100 agree Like a Star @ heaven

Atlas Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:49 am

Couldn't agree with you more hovis. Always and providing that no particular aspects are dominant in the discussion. But as you well know not all 'households' are the same and children are quite brilliant at picking up or imitating without necessarily having the acumen to understand or dissect thus taking things at face value and eventually becoming 'clones' of some elses beliefs and views. The 'rote' teaching of religions are a case in mind. The same can be done on any subject with young minds. Which takes the thread off and beyond its original intention - so there I will leave it. Wink

Hinch Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:11 am

I think Mum was apolitical but tended to vote Labour. Dad was a trade union Branch Sec and Labour to the core. Politics was never rammed down our throats but I was always aware that society was organised round the 'haves' and the 'have-nots'. (At Unii, I learned that this was called 'Classical Marxism' which; at least in economic rather than purely political terms, I remain.)

Sadly, after dad died, Mum one year was sat in her home on Ulster Ave playing hell at an election leaflet pushed through her door written in Urdu with no English translation. As she was in full outraged throttle, we heard a loudspeaker van outsider presumably urging voters to the polls. The entire address was conducted in a South-East Asian language.

That was the last straw, Mum headed down, - somewhat ironically, to the Castlemere Poiling station and voted for the National Front candidate.

It was much to our horror and disgust of course but you do have to wonder sometimes...

cyfrifia Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:58 am

The couple were given just 20 minutes notice before the children were taken away from them because they were members of the UK Independence Party.

Mr Farage said "Heads should roll." Joyce Thacker, Rotherham's head of children's services, who is paid more than £130,000 a year, should lose her job.

Prudence Tempered Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:47 am

Yet UKIP seem to have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. One of their by-election candidates has described gay adoption as 'child abuse'. Mr Farage seems suddenly unavailable for comment.

Charly Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:54 am

I would defend a persons right to have an opinion whether or not it 'fitted'

Irishman Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:41 am

I suspect there is more to the story than what we are seeing.

Hinch Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:12 am

Prudence Tempered wrote:Yet UKIP seem to have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. One of their by-election candidates has described gay adoption as 'child abuse'. Mr Farage seems suddenly unavailable for comment.

Have to admit, I do look forward to the presence of Farage on BBC Question Time. He always makes for a lively debate and is certainly able to get under the skin of his fellow-panelists. Mind you, he's carrying more baggage than Antler luggage.

It is only the failure of the other 'main' parties to inspire the voters that has allowed UKIP to come to the fore.

Prudence Tempered Wed Nov 28, 2012 9:19 am

Hinch wrote:It is only the failure of the other 'main' parties to inspire the voters that has allowed UKIP to come to the fore.

Surely that also applies to the Monster Raving Loony Party.

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