Turner prize

Charly Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:59 am

How gruesome that a video that shows the Manchester Woolworths fire where 10 people died, wins this years £25,000 Turner prize for art!

Its not exactly what I would think of as 'art'

Chill37 Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:15 am

Thats really disgusting. How can you call a fatal fire as 'art'.

Her so-called art project is titled :

'The Woolworths Choir of 1979, 2012'

The mind boggles. What on earth posessed this so called artist to use this fatal fires as their entry.

Also what a load of tosh has been said about this.

Comments such as :

'The judges said they admired the "seductive and immersive" aspects of her 20-minute film, which they said "reflects the ambition that has characterised her work in recent years".

Or

'Her use of various archival material created a "rhythmic and ritualistic experience", they said

This one got my blood boiling:

'According to the Baltic Gallery in Gateshead, where Price exhibited earlier this year, she "draws upon historical film, photographic archives and collections of artefacts to generate fantasy episodes".

So an event where 10 people died and lead to major changes to in the law is used for fantasy or is regarded as fantasy. Im lost for words.

Dalelad Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:49 am

I can't really comment until I've seen it. I'm not sure how anyone can. I guess there is more to it than just the Woolworth's fire.

Admin Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:51 am

I was in Manchester on the day of the fire and saw all the fire appliances there. Awful.

I would like to know more before I offer a view.

Irishman Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:48 am

Yes,very sad such a tragedy is being used in this way. Sad

cyfrifia Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:56 am

In a way, there is nothing wrong with a work of art about a tragedy, but it depends. On similar lines, is this video 'art'? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA2gmYnB7Bs . scratch

johnb Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:06 pm

And so we should ban every war film from Ben Hurr forward - and what of Shindler's List?

I think not...

Chill37 Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:23 pm

johnb wrote:And so we should ban every war film from Ben Hurr forward - and what of Shindler's List?

I think not...

No of course not. That film is historically correct. At the very least it does not have finger clicks and strange hand claps over laid the video.

Dalelad Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:28 pm

Not sure about the historical accuracy of Ben Hur, Chill, but until I've seen this work of art in context I can't criticise it. Let's face it, a panel of judges thought it fit to award it the first prize.

Chill37 Tue Dec 04, 2012 1:39 pm

Dalelad wrote:Not sure about the historical accuracy of Ben Hur, Chill, but until I've seen this work of art in context I can't criticise it. Let's face it, a panel of judges thought it fit to award it the first prize.

I was referring to Schindlers List as historical accurate.

Well everyone is entitled to their views, i only re printed the frankly fawning and gushing comments from 'Art' critics.

For example what is seductive about images of a place where people have died. As for fantasy. I mean come on!

I am all for art in all forms and looking at it - Ive visted the Tate at London- but i find it distastful that this Artist is using this fatal fire and putting pointless clapping and finger clicking over it as well.

What fatal incident will she use next? Heysal ? The Bradford Fire? Im not making light of this in the slightest, but how can anyone call this form of 'art' art?

The whole award thing is basically a back slapping and kissing of the derrieres of people - sorry to be a bit blunt.

Irishman Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:25 pm

Dalelad wrote:Not sure about the historical accuracy of Ben Hur, Chill, but until I've seen this work of art in context I can't criticise it. Let's face it, a panel of judges thought it fit to award it the first prize.

Totally agree, it's fiction and the project we are debating isn't fiction and very close to those that suffered, 100 year from now maybe not worth a mention.

Charly Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:36 pm

cyfrifia wrote:In a way, there is nothing wrong with a work of art about a tragedy, but it depends. On similar lines, is this video 'art'? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA2gmYnB7Bs .

Well Ive just watched all of this video and found it very interesting and informative...and nobody died, so I dont know what the comparison is.

cyfrifia Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:18 pm

Well: You didn't waste your day. I thought the video with the computer generated voice is sort of similar to Turner style modern art, in it's disconnectedness. Anyway, it was on Utube, so it's a video trouve. ( a video I found).

Charly Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:25 pm

I was expecting some disaster or other, like the one the topic is about, in the name of 'art'
I didn't find the computerised voiceover that distracting, the wrong pronunciation of the town and village names wasn't enough to put me off listening to the end and I learned stuff I didnt know...so thanks Laughing

cyfrifia Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:11 pm

You are very tolerant Charly. And educated as well, now. cat

Atlas Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:59 am

Unfortunately a great deal of modern art has only the 'f' missing from the front of the word 'art'. It's not for the likes of me and you anyway. Only rich disingenuous grubbers deal in that world - to make money - money making money. I would stop any public grants that continue to 'shore up' such con tricks and leave the money rakers to there own devices. We don't have to play 'their' game if we don't want to.

Irishman Wed Dec 05, 2012 4:42 pm

Yes, I remember visiting the Tate London many years ago and being confronted by a wall of bricks, very sad.

I've not long visited Tate Liverpool for a Turner, Monet and Twombly Exhibition, great day out. I'm afriad Turner would be turning in his grave at this lot.

Hinch Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:51 pm

Yet Turner was reviled throughout his life and thought very rough and ready unlike his great contemporary, Constable.

'Impressionist' was used in a derogatory sense to describe a group of artists in Paris in the 19th century. [You may have heard of some of them; Manet, Monet, Renoir, Degas etc.]

Great art is usually edgy and seldom given credit by the general public at the time. Van Gogh only managed to sell a few paintings in his lifetime. Try buying one today.

cyfrifia Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:02 pm

There were lots of artists in the past that people said were rubbish, and they were, so, we never hear of them.

Hinch Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:40 pm

I don't think that the acid-test of whether or not an artist is/was 'rubbish' depends necessarily on whether they are alive or dead Cylfrifia. Van Gogh was not discovered until quite a while after he drew breath and greatness does not rely upon them being a household name or whether or not their works get snapped up by Milk Tray.

As for taste, which is partly what this thread is about is a strange thing and definitely very subjective and time-limited. An artist in the last century was castigated widely about his picture of a sickening air-attack and saturation bombing of unarmed civilians in which thousands died yet now, Pablo Picasso's 'Guernica' is one of the world's great works of art and changed people's perceptions of the Spanish Civil War.

I would have hated Mondrian & Kandinski years ago and as for Jackson Pollock... bah. Since then, I have learned more about them and have come to appreciate their work far more.

At the end of the day, artists like to provoke thought, debate and controvery. You don't have to like it. I wouldn't have a copy of 'The Hay Wain' on my wall if you paid me. in gold bars. As for that revolting picture of a kid with a tear rolling down it's cheek... vile. Yet millions have repros of these hanging up in their homes and dood luck to 'em if that's what they like. The aforementioned little boy; is he crying because he hurt his knee or his mum told him he couldn't have any sweets or is he crying for a darker, sinister reason because he knows his abuser/tormenter will be home soon?

Years ago, in the 70's I thought 'Wings of Love' and 'Tina' great, inspiring works. Now, I'd be ashamed to freecycle 'em. (I must be turning into a snob!)

I never used to like our local aqrtist Walter Kershaw. I found his work very imature and mundane. Now, either my tastes have changed, his draughtsmanship has improved or I have come to accept t5he mundane as a suitable artistic swubject. Who knows.

I went to see a picture of the Bradford stadium fire. A lot of people said it was in terrible taste but I found it really thought-provoking and gave you a deeper understanding of what happened that terrible day in a way that the live TV news-feeds couldn't encapsulate.

Mind you, my old gran used to rate great art on whether or not the eyes followed you round the room. I hated to explain to her that of course they would unless it was a hologram or in 3D.

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