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Guardsman in a turban

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Post  Old Regulator Thu Dec 13, 2012 8:32 pm

I don’t often comment on these kind of topics, can’t see not won’t see, but in the years Atlas has given forth I find his pink jibe a little hard to believe for such an erudite chap, even from the other side of Offa’s dyke.

I’m with DL on tradition and would like confirmation the ‘bearskin bonnet, Busby or head dress was worn by Errrrm the French in Napoleon’s elite guards.

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Post  past it Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:00 pm

Charly wrote:Right wing because they like to see tradition upheld? Yes, ok then.

I am all for tradition. I am for example a sucker for military bands pipe music and all that. This Sikh wears a turban because that is as much his tradition as the busbee. The right wing comments on this forum are growing.

There is a difference between patriotism and jingoism.


Last edited by past it on Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  Old Regulator Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:10 pm

Here, Here, Past it.

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Post  Hinch Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:25 pm

Tradition was one of the reasons why cock-fighting and bear-baiting was not banned much earlier than it was. It was also used in the Isle of Man to allow them to use the birch.

I too love military bands and a bit of pageantry. My enjoyment of these will not be ruined because one of them wears a different hat... And I know Salty's won't!

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Post  Hinch Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:59 pm

And while we're at it, those small brown chaps with the funny hats. You know, them with all the VCs. What's all that about and why are they allowed to carry those 'traditional' curved knives?

Mind you, I believe they're very handy with 'em.

Bloody foreigners!
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Post  cyfrifia Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:23 pm

That would be the Gurkhas. Some groups of people are famously good fighters, others are good at other things, depending on their cultural history and other things. Is it racist to prefer people from one group or race over another for a particular job or role in society just because they are better at it? I suppose it is. Smile

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Post  Hinch Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:53 pm

Do you mean like black men being great drummers, dancers and basketball players and the irish being good at making Guinness?
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Post  Atlas Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:36 am

Hinch wrote:And while we're at it, those small brown chaps with the funny hats. You know, them with all the VCs. What's all that about and why are they allowed to carry those 'traditional' curved knives?

Mind you, I believe they're very handy with 'em.

Bloody foreigners!


Because it's traditional for them to do so. Wink
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Post  Atlas Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:52 am

past it wrote: I think he looks very smart. He is willing to die in the service, uniforms are constantly changing. What's the problem? There are some very right wing members on this forum. As Hinch says" are there some darker forces at work here" I think that's the quote. Apologies Hinch if it is not.

Right wing! Oh dear better go take one of mi' pills. Yes past it, if you say so. (The man's lost it. I wonder if Admin knows?) If so past it, I should hate to think what my other 'right wing' compatriots might think of my being one of them. (Told yer. He's lost it. It happens to the best on here. I've seen it before - affraid )
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Post  Atlas Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:54 am

johnb wrote:No, racist because they are unwilling to accept the traditions of ethnicities prepared to die for the crown.

Soldiers from the sub-continent pay the supreme price and have been decorated for acts of the highest valour - fighting for a country not their own, in a fight not their own out of loyalty to a colonising power.

That's a bit strong from you johnb. Have you been having a bad day? Wink
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Post  Atlas Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:33 am

Old Regulator wrote:I don’t often comment on these kind of topics, can’t see not won’t see, but in the years Atlas has given forth I find his pink jibe a little hard to believe for such an erudite chap, even from the other side of Offa’s dyke.

I’m with DL on tradition and would like confirmation the ‘bearskin bonnet, Busby or head dress was worn by Errrrm the French in Napoleon’s elite guards.


Quite correct Old Regulator - and greetings. However - I might live the other side of the dyke but if you were to read any of my autobiographies on the Dale you might just come up with some knowlege of what I am and who I am - (opps nothing special I assure you - just one of the lads.). Wink Fair Fortune.
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Post  cyfrifia Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:47 am

Hinch wrote:Do you mean like black men being great drummers, dancers and basketball players and the irish being good at making Guinness?

That sort of thing. When you are relying on someone to do a brilliant job, like relying on soldiers to fight off an enemy, or people to cook a brilliant meal, or someone to devise a reliable computer program, then it's reassuring to have Gurkhas for fighting, Thais doing the cooking, Japanese for computer programs and Jamaicans doing the disco. Because different cultural groups have traditions of excellence, it seems reasonable to have them do the things they are excellent at. But, with politically correct procedures, that would not be possible.

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Post  past it Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:36 am

Atlas wrote:
past it wrote: I think he looks very smart. He is willing to die in the service, uniforms are constantly changing. What's the problem? There are some very right wing members on this forum. As Hinch says" are there some darker forces at work here" I think that's the quote. Apologies Hinch if it is not.

Right wing! Oh dear better go take one of mi' pills. Yes past it, if you say so. (The man's lost it. I wonder if Admin knows?) If so past it, I should hate to think what my other 'right wing' compatriots might think of my being one of them. (Told yer. He's lost it. It happens to the best on here. I've seen it before - :affraid: )

If that's the best you can do I can relax. As was said by one MP about being criticised by Geoffrey Howe " It's like being savaged by a dead sheep"

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Post  Hinch Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:03 pm

cyfrifia wrote: That sort of thing. When you are relying on someone to do a brilliant job, like relying on soldiers to fight off an enemy, or people to cook a brilliant meal, or someone to devise a reliable computer program, then it's reassuring to have Gurkhas for fighting, Thais doing the cooking, Japanese for computer programs and Jamaicans doing the disco. Because different cultural groups have traditions of excellence, it seems reasonable to have them do the things they are excellent at. But, with politically correct procedures, that would not be possible.

I think that the Gurkha's were essentially local labour hired on the cheap, being as they are, a mercenary unit. Great for sorting out bushfire stuff along the North West frontier, Malaya, Singapore, Burma etc.

Mind you, they do a nice curry too. Ate in the Gurkha Restaurant in Falmouth last year on Tinkerbell's recommendation. Their Himalayan goat receipes take some beating.

Not sure about their music and dancing though... or their software skills!
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Post  cyfrifia Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:07 pm

Are you busy with other things and reading in a hurry this morning Hinch? You seem to have completely jumbled up the meaning of what you quoted.

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Post  Dalelad Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:41 pm

cyfrifia wrote:That sort of thing. When you are relying on someone to do a brilliant job, like relying on soldiers to fight off an enemy, or people to cook a brilliant meal, or someone to devise a reliable computer program, then it's reassuring to have Gurkhas for fighting, Thais doing the cooking, Japanese for computer programs and Jamaicans doing the disco. Because different cultural groups have traditions of excellence, it seems reasonable to have them do the things they are excellent at. But, with politically correct procedures, that would not be possible.
This is a wind up, right? Anyone from anywhere could be good at any of these activities, given the education and training. Assuming that someone will have a certain skill based on where they come/colour of their skin from is just wrong.
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Post  cyfrifia Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:50 pm

Dalelad wrote: Anyone from anywhere could be good at any of these activities, given the education and training.

Within reason that is correct, but the sort of education and training needed to equal the skill of someone brought up in a cultural tradition of excellence might have to start in childhood and have constant access to people that genuinely have those skills, you can't send someone off for a five week training in Javanese wood carving or Spanish horse training or Japanese manufacturing techniques, and get as good a result as the real thing. Nowhere near.

Before the world was globalised, fairly recently, different peoples all around the world lived in very different cultural and physical environments for thousands of years, and developed traditions and skills of various kinds, often passed down within families and tribal groups. Gurkhas are incredibly hardy and tenacious soldiers, a few lads from Rochdale who had done a 'Gurkha fighting technique' training course would be nothing like as good.

Maybe. On the other hand, British Karate fighters can beat the Japanese.

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Post  Dalelad Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:07 pm

I agree, but unlike Javanese wood carving, which is highly localised activity, fighting, cooking, computer programming or DJing are not specialised activities, just general ones. You can't put all residents of a particular area into good at this/bad at that boxes based only on the area they come from.
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Post  cyfrifia Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:39 pm

No, you can't apply it too widely, but when it comes to excellence, the tradition and area people come from can give them a considerable edge. For climbing Everest, a Sherpa (not the van) is a useful companion, for long distance running a Kenyan is a good choice, for diving underwater without air, those pearl divers from Japan are the best, families there have been doing it for centuries. For building an igloo in a hurry during a blizzard, an Eskimo might do better. It depends how keen you are on excellence, it can be the difference between living and dying, winning or losing. Zulus are best for getting things off high shelves. Only Norwegians can play death metal rock music on a regular basis, nobody else would want to.

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Post  Guest Fri Dec 14, 2012 10:38 pm

cyfrifia wrote:

On the other hand, British Karate fighters can beat the Japanese.


I can't do with all this stereotyping, must be something to do with my Learnt Environment Rolling Eyes

As a matter of interest, do people from Todmorden area have an edge on any excellent traditions Laughing



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Post  cyfrifia Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:06 pm

Not really, not that I've noticed. There used to be an Italian cafe, did very good ice cream, but that's gone.

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Post  Atlas Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:58 am

Of course they do. Clog dancin'. What a question! Wink
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