Pennine Acute Trust

Spartacus Wed Apr 24, 2013 3:09 pm

You're not going to believe this or are you?

Sunday afternoon: hubby suffers a fall and is taken by ambulance to Fairfield hospital where, after a number of hours, following x-rays, he is diagnosed with a broken back. Talk of admitting hubby to North Manchester. Phone calls made and then hubby discharged home to my care Sunday evening.

Monday morning: hubby attends fracture clinic where the sister in charge, recognising the severe pain he is in, speeds his way to see the Doctor conducting the clinic. Talk of admitting hubby to North Manchester. Phone calls made and then Doc fills in requests for CT Scan, marks URGENT and requests one of the nurses present to immediately leave and hand deliver the request to the x-ray department. Doc informs me hubby should have scan by Tuesday afternoon at the latest. If not to telephone and pursue. Meanwhile prescription given for pain medication and Doc arranges for hubby to have a back brace.

Tuesday morning: hubby attends Fairfield, brace fitted. No scan forthcoming.

Tuesday afternoon: NO scan. I start making phone calls. Many phone calls later I am informed the hand delivered URGENT request for a CT scan had been incorrectly completed so the form was "sent back" to North Manchester via internal post by staff at Fairfield and x-ray would have to wait for a new form to be completed and submitted. Meanwhile, everyone had gone home so to phone Consultants secretary Wednesday am.

Wednesday morning: Phoned Consultants Secretary at North Manchester who confirmed incorrectly completed form requesting URGENT CT Scan was sent back - through internal post - from Fairfield to North Manchester. A new form, correctly completed and marked URGENT would be sent to Fairfield immediately.

Wednesday afternoon: Phoned Fairfield chasing scan. Form not received, still in North Manchester. Advised to phone North Manchester. Phoned North Manchester, confirmed form there, marked URGENT. Advised procedure for URGENT form is that it will be forwarded to Radiologist who will review and if OK will authorise form. Authorised Form will then be sent to the Central Booking Office in Rochdale to make an appointment for a CT Scan at Fairfield. Likely we will receive a call from Booking on Friday a.m.

Whisky, Tango, Foxtrot! If this is how they treat something marked URGENT there's no hope for anything else!

Jeanie Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:33 pm

Just disgraceful and due to the number of issues I still get contacted about on a weekly basis it is quite frightening Spartacus,sadly most of who I deal with are elderly and on their own !
But no-one is challenging them any more especially at Health overview & scrutiny far to quiet these days ?
Hope your hubby is ok and makes a full recovery please put a formal complaint in not that they will do anything but at least it will be logged Wink

Poppyanna555 Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:57 pm

Absolutely disgusting!! Poor man, is his pain being managed adequately? I sincerely hope so as it looks like he is in for the long haul! Evil or Very Mad

teamplayer2 Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:33 pm

I was told a story this last week of a friend. Also been to a meeting tonight and heard a couple of tales.

The problem is like other people we are hearing this quite often and not much apart from what Spartacus has told us. The people who do not seem to be listening Jeanie is the managers at the hospital.

I had reasons to complain a couple of years ago about some treatment my partner had and sad to see others are still having problems.

I thought they were suppose to learn from complaints, but in looking at what Spartacus is telling us nothing has changed much.

Communications is one big problem between the hospitals.

Hinch Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:04 pm

Sparky must be p*ssed off. 'whisky tango foxtrot' is the closest I've ever heard her come to swearing.

Jeanie Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:20 pm

[quote="teamplayer2"
The people who do not seem to be listening Jeanie is the managers at the hospital.

The only thing the Managers of the Pennine Acute are interested in T.P is trying to become a Foundation Trust which again has been put on hold because of financial problems Wink

teamplayer2 Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:45 pm

Jeanie the people at the top must know there are problems but what are they doing about it?

Spartacus Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:59 pm

Thanks everyone.

Hubby's pain is being managed well - apart from my nagging - Laughing

All the staff we have been in contact with (both nursing and admin) have been exemplary in their roles and have been so caring in their approach. The problem appears to be with a system which seems to view the Trust as one yet the hospitals as separate units, i.e. Hubby was taken to A&E at Fairfield but the Consultant his injury places him under is based in North Manchester. The system will not allow for someone in North Manchester to fax a request to their counterpart at Fairfield nor will it permit the sending of an email! No one is able (willing?) to pick up a telephone and make the request for the scan because (we are informed) the system will not permit them to do so. Crazy!

Meanwhile patients suffer and carers like myself become frustrated with an already stressful situation. Let's hope we make better progress tomorrow.

Meanwhile, I have deep concerns for the elderly and those without the means (time and funds) to spend hours on the telephone going around in circles.

Poppyanna555 Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:39 pm

As long as I can remember, I have been made aware that the Health Authority (along with the Police) will 'always put their umbrella's up' ......never knew what that meant for some time, but I do now!

Guest Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:16 pm

Spartacus wrote:Meanwhile patients suffer and carers like myself become frustrated with an already stressful situation. Let's hope we make better progress tomorrow.

Meanwhile, I have deep concerns for the elderly and those without the means (time and funds) to spend hours on the telephone going around in circles.

Tango, Whisky, Foxtrot! Wow, that's also ' military-style ' campaigning speak Spartacus.

We were previously told that modern IT would speed up communications and function links between the hospitals in the Trust ... claptrap also comes to mind.

Best wishes for tomorrow. Your thoughts for the isolated and elderly are kind, unselfish and regrettably a major shared concern in these issues.

teamplayer2 Thu Apr 25, 2013 7:56 am

Try this one Mojo. Partner taken to hospital but you cannot go in the ambulance but informed which hospital they are going to, You get to the hospital but then reception tells you they are not sure if they have arrived at the hospital. So you ask if they gone elsewhere, but they will not tell you because it is not on the computer and because of DATA PROTECTION. That is fine and the need to protect the patients privacy, but you are the carer for the partner and the one who had to call for an emergency ambulance.

Carer going frantic and panicking trying to find out where their partner has gone and no one willing to tell you because the information is not in the computer. Then you come across one of the ambulance crew who tell you they have been in the hospital for the last hour. They take you to your partner. Find out the wrong treatment is being given and all information has not been passed on.

You make a complaint to the hospital authorities and they try to cover it up with lame excuses.

Though they do tell the truth in the end but you have to fight to get to the truth.

Trouble is it is still happening to other people because of communication problems and a few other problems by what Spartacus has told us.

Best wishes for both of you Spartacus and I pray things will get better for you both.

Hinch Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:23 am

Required reading for NHS managers is Orwell's 1984.

The Ministry of Plenty deals in famine and shortages. The Ministry of Truth deals in lying and cover-ups. The Ministry of Health would no doubt deal with ensuring that access to healthcare would be severely restricted.

Mr and Mrs Sparky, though unaware of it are part of a pilot scheme.

I worked in spinal injuries in Sheffield and Cardiff for about five years. The case details fill me with horror.

"I'm afraid you have a fractured spine. Take these painkillers, bugger off home and we'll try to organise a scan sometime... possibly or perhaps not. Next!"

Spartacus Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:36 am

Thanks everyone. Still playing the waiting game.

Hinch wrote:Required reading for NHS managers is Orwell's 1984.

The Ministry of Plenty deals in famine and shortages. The Ministry of Truth deals in lying and cover-ups. The Ministry of Health would no doubt deal with ensuring that access to healthcare would be severely restricted.

Mr and Mrs Sparky, though unaware of it are part of a pilot scheme.

I worked in spinal injuries in Sheffield and Cardiff for about five years. The case details fill me with horror.

"I'm afraid you have a fractured spine. Take these painkillers, bugger off home and we'll try to organise a scan sometime... possibly or perhaps not. Next!"

Well said, Hinch.

Bearing in mind hubby spent the best part of 3 years paralysed following previous injury (and his "new" injury has happened in part because of his old injuries) the Doctor probably wrote "Urgent" on the request because in his professional opinion a scan was required asap to ensure things were dealt with quickly.

I think what is happening here is a recurrence of the problem we experienced last year. Hubby was not admitted to hospital - I'm assuming this was because of a lack of beds. IF he had been admitted he would have been an "in-patient" and the system would have dealt with him super efficiently in order to free-up the bed.

Because he was not admitted and remains an "out-patient" his case is not seen as "urgent" by the system despite it being deemed so by the Doctor. Therefore his incorrectly filled in scan request (would love to know what the error was) goes to the back of the queue and is being processed along with all the other scan requests the Trust receives hence the reason why it is on it's way to the "Central Booking Office in Rochdale."

They couldn't organise the proverbial brewery party. It's a joke but no laughing matter.

Jeanie Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:17 pm

Just how urgent is anything considerd these days? In my opinion any broken bone /body part needs Urgent attention otherwise the long term effect often ends up major !!!
Just disgusting and un-acceptable suffering all for the sake of saving money

Spartacus Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:21 am

Scan Requests, although marked urgent, are NOT urgent at Pennine Acute Trust because cancer patients have to wait 9 days and your husband doesn't have cancer!

Hubby now has his urgent scan appointment - Monday 30th April at North Manchester NOT Fairfield because there were NO Scan appointments at Fairfield that were before his next appointment with the Consultant on Tuesday.

I had wanted to avoid driving him to North Manchester in the car, silly me, thought it would be better to limit car travel in his condition.

Further news, wondering if I should post this in the "light relief" thread but here goes:

Original "urgent" scan request returned because

Hospital Admin: it did not include his blood results
Me: He's not had blood tests
Hospital Admin: perhaps that's because he didn't need any for the scan
Me: does he need any for the scan?
Hospital Admin: er... I'll have to check.

UPDATE: cheers

All change - scan now taking place TODAY at FAIRFIELD and would you believe it - NO blood tests necessary!

Hinch Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:27 am

How many Pennine Acute managers does it take to change a lightbulb?

"We are not allowed to give you that information madam because of the Data Protection Act."

Atlas Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:38 am

Striding Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:58 pm

Come on Hinch, you know the answer to that question anyway, even if you can't get an official answer.

Managers would not do anything as practical as changing a light bulb.

The actual way that things work is that you log the problem with the estates department, and then a couple of months later, if you are lucky and chase the call a couple of times, someone will come out and try to persuade you that you don't really need a light there, and explain that 'they do not make the part' any more.

Well, that was the way until recently. Now you would probably get a contract 'bulb changer'. They would do the same as the previously employed permanent staff bulb changer, but would be less committed to the NHS and patient care, and paid two or three times as much. This would count as a cost saving because they would be paid out of a seemingly bottomless capital budget (but surely still public money and the same bottom line), and not the hard-pressed revenue budget.

Meanwhile staff are being encouraged to please do any of the following:
- Take voluntary severance (like redundancy but much less money offered, less even than the national MARS severance rates)
- Buy extra holidays, i.e. work less, be paid less
- Voluntary reduction in working hours, i.e .work less, be paid less
- Take a career break i.e. stop working, stop being paid for an extended period
- Take unpaid leave, i.e. don't work and don't get paid for a while
- Take unpaid Health & Well Being Days, ie. take time off to look after your health without pay

teamplayer2 Sun Apr 28, 2013 10:05 pm

Yes there does seem to be few odd things going on in the NHS.

I had a telephone call this last week saying I am back on a waiting list for a minor operation. I have been on the list for sometime since last year.

So puzzled by this and and not knowing I had been taken off the waiting list I went to find out what is going on.

The excuse was I had an appointment made in April for the minor op and they tried to contact me on the phone and they decided to cancel.

I had no letter to confirm this and I told them I was on a message service on my home phone, and I had given them my mobile number, and given my email address. So no evidence of them contacting me. So they gave my appointment to someone else. I asked how long I will have to wait again? To be informed I will be waiting quite a long time for the next slot for the minor op.

They did say they will look into what happened but I am back on the waiting list. So I said I was not happy with the service and wait for an answer to how the mix up happened. Later in the week I had a letter saying my appointment has been made for June. So not waiting as long as I thought I would be, so I will take the appointment.

Good job it was nothing serious but looking at other stories like Spartacus, it does make you think what the F*** IS GOING ON!

Atlas Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:16 am

They are obviously 'sifting' the bins in order to remove anything that would obstruct 'work' that could prove themselves in difficulty should something with those lists go wrong through protracted long waiting periods.
In other words. If you are not about to die - then f***k you. Wink

- Well that's what I would do - given no choice. affraid

Spartacus Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:14 am

teamplayer2 wrote:Yes there does seem to be few odd things going on in the NHS.

I had a telephone call this last week saying I am back on a waiting list for a minor operation. I have been on the list for sometime since last year.

So puzzled by this and and not knowing I had been taken off the waiting list I went to find out what is going on.

The excuse was I had an appointment made in April for the minor op and they tried to contact me on the phone and they decided to cancel.

I had no letter to confirm this and I told them I was on a message service on my home phone, and I had given them my mobile number, and given my email address. So no evidence of them contacting me. So they gave my appointment to someone else. I asked how long I will have to wait again? To be informed I will be waiting quite a long time for the next slot for the minor op.

They did say they will look into what happened but I am back on the waiting list. So I said I was not happy with the service and wait for an answer to how the mix up happened. Later in the week I had a letter saying my appointment has been made for June. So not waiting as long as I thought I would be, so I will take the appointment.

Good job it was nothing serious but looking at other stories like Spartacus, it does make you think what the F*** IS GOING ON!

I also received a phone call last week from the Trust cancelling a much awaited appointment as there was "no doctor available to take the clinic". I was assured a new appointment will be forthcoming...

teamplayer2 Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:15 am

Atlas wrote:They are obviously 'sifting' the bins in order to remove anything that would obstruct 'work' that could prove themselves in difficulty should something with those lists go wrong through protracted long waiting periods.
In other words. If you are not about to die - then f***k you. - Well that's what I would do - given no choice.

Do not know about that Atlas. affraid

But! When they say they tried to contact you and there is no evidence of them doing so and take you off the list. That is more frightening. affraid

Though they did put me back on the list but could they have missed me and how many more times has this happened to other people. What is more frightening how many people has it had happen to with much more serious illness and has cost lives. This is my concern. Shocked

Charly Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:19 am

It annoys me when people say they rang me but there was no answer.
My phone logs ALL calls in and out, number, time and duration even if they leave no message and if the number is withheld that information is there also.
So I know for fact whether or not someone has called.

teamplayer2 Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:27 am

Same here Charly and also they had alternative ways of contacting me. I would not care but they were the ones who asked me to provide the information. Very scary. affraid

Atlas Wed May 01, 2013 1:01 am

I suspect they are employing the 'cowboy' system of avoidance and misdirection mainly due to financial and thus 'lack of operatives' reasons. As a 'industry' overburdened with clients, all of whom have to be serviced one way or another, steps will (and must by dint of necessity) be taken to 'cull' those considered 'none urgent'. I sympathise but fully understand their actions in a climate of 'lack of resource and incompetence'. Such however does not help those thus affected - but that's the way things are at the present time. Bloody shame. Sad

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