Dispatches Channel 4 (Thurs 12th Sept)

Mulldog Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:10 am

No discussion about the subject? Shocked

Chill37 Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:15 am

I asssume this is the programme on Cyril Smith and how he got away with child abuse?

I think more over we need a response about what happens next.

Woe betide if we ever hear ' Lessons will be learnt'!!!

Mulldog Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:19 am

.

..And what a strange time to air it too at 11pm?

Chill37 Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:29 am

Mulldog wrote:...And what a strange time to air it too at 11pm?

yes it should have been aired at primetime.

To show the cover up that was happening whilst the abuse was going on.

Another very dark chapter for our Town.

Guest Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:57 am

Chill37 wrote:

I asssume this is the programme on Cyril Smith and how he got away with child abuse?

Yes.
Protected by “the establishment“

Channel 4's Dispatches on Cyril Smith is reported as uncomfortable but powerful viewing: -

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2013/sep/12/jimmy-savile-cyril-smith-paedophiles-authorities-viewers-indulged

Link .... Dispatches - 4oD - Channel 4 : -

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od

Chill37 Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:20 am

Latest Goverment report issued in the wake of the abuse cases in Rochdale:

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/gove-slams-absurd-child-secrecy-5922823

cyfrifia Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:15 pm

Those problems have been widely known and pointed out by various officials in various reports and in the media for years, if that hasn't been sorted out by now, what else hasn't been sorted out?

Chill37 Fri Sep 13, 2013 12:44 pm

cyfrifia wrote:Those problems have been widely known and pointed out by various officials in various reports and in the media for years, if that hasn't been sorted out by now, what else hasn't been sorted out?

iI shudder to think.

Jeanie Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:23 pm

I have just watched this programme and feel sad, sickened and betrayed. I was a friend of Cyril's right up to his death and visited him 2-3 times a week at the nursing home before he died .

As a mother of 3 sons my heart goes out to these young men and what they went through, just unbelievable and so very sad .

Atlas Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:50 pm

Yes Jeanie. But the story is not yet finished. Time will hopefully reveal the other connections with the 'house' in London and the whiff of 'connections' through to North Wales. There is much, much more behind this episode of betrayal and skulduggery yet to rise to the surface and be accounted for. That there was a powerful 'ring' of 'abusers', men in high places, capable of acting without fear of discovery or restraint goes to my mind without question. Why else did the servants of the 'State' suppress and bury? For what other reason than for keeping the 'people' calm and things running smoothly? Having been enmeshed in the 'secrets' of the 'State' and all it's running sores with decades of research of the 'war' years for my books, Nothing - I repeat - Nothing these days surprises me. I know what my father's generation would do to avoid the truth, to keep secrets, to pacify the masses under the guise of 'the good of the nation'. This dirty little game of the Smith/Saville & Others affair is small beer in the greater scheme of things, so be not surprised or feel betrayed, for that is the 'number' of our present day species. Sad isn't it. Rolling Eyes

cyfrifia Sat Sep 14, 2013 10:40 am

While we are considering things hidden from the public, that cause so much damage, Cyril Smith, a shareholder in the asbestos industry, is said to have been involved in the business of covering up the danger to the people of Rochdale. An ongoing problem.

Chill37 Sat Sep 14, 2013 2:16 pm

cyfrifia wrote:While we are considering things hidden from the public, that cause so much damage, Cyril Smith, a shareholder in the asbestos industry, is said to have been involved in the business of covering up the danger to the people of Rochdale. An ongoing problem.

His support of the Asbestos industry is well known.

But to what degree he covered things is stil to be figured out.

cyfrifia Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:56 pm

It is still to be figured out properly. Cyril Smith certainly spoke to Parliament strongly in defence of the asbestos industry in Rochdale. That is on record.
http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1981/oct/22/asbestos
He also invested his own money, buying shares in the same industry. From his other statements on record, he knew asbestos is a killer, but accepted that as a fact of industry, comparing it with the risk of crossing the road and death rates in coal mining as being worse. Possibly he did not understand the long term effects asbestos manufacture would have.

Atlas Sun Sep 15, 2013 12:29 am

Or didn't care. Hmmm -. I knew Cyril. Worked for him for a short time. Wasn't all sweetness and light - in fact never light come to think of it? scratch

Guest Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:19 am

Hinch Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:23 am

I wrote this story up for RO much earlier on this year. Dispatches is very slow off the ground.

teamplayer2 Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:52 pm

Everybody seemed 30 years to late Hinch.

Guest Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:15 pm

teamplayer2 wrote: Everybody seemed 30 years to late Hinch.

Teamplayer2: 30 years? This one's 48 years -

BBC News - Cyril Smith abuse claims: 'Police alerted in 1965'

Social worker Lyndon Price said he raised the issue with the chief constable of Rochdale Borough Police, Patrick Ross, in 1965. "I thought his words at the time were rather unusual: he said, 'It has been decided that we will take no further action' – not, 'I have decided'," said Mr Price.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-21364579

Several reports intimate that such abuses and the networks crossed the party political spectrum and consider Rochdale Police / Lancashire Police an integral part of ‘ the Establishment.'

Chill37 Tue Sep 17, 2013 8:05 pm

Just keeps getting worse and worse.

Atlas Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:47 am

No not really chill37. YOU are becoming more aware of the 'way' things 'work'. Take for example the latest reports through the last Panorama programme on 'TAX AVOIDANCE' - and see just how the 'good and the great' manipulate the structures to enable them to keep 'one step ahead' of the rest of us whilst all the time appearing to be doing 'the right thing'. It's called 'controlling the masses'.You don't need to know therefore for the good of all and so as not to get you all excited WE shall tell you only that which WE think is good for you - ergo - cover-ups and double-dealings. Ti's the way of the world. p,s, If you wish to continue with the Tax Avoidance scandal perhaps it should be under a new listing - post.

Chill37 Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:46 pm

Atlas wrote:No not really chill37. YOU are becoming more aware of the 'way' things 'work'. Take for example the latest reports through the last Panorama programme on 'TAX AVOIDANCE' - and see just how the 'good and the great' manipulate the structures to enable them to keep 'one step ahead' of the rest of us whilst all the time appearing to be doing 'the right thing'. It's called 'controlling the masses'.You don't need to know therefore for the good of all and so as not to get you all excited WE shall tell you only that which WE think is good for you - ergo - cover-ups and double-dealings. Ti's the way of the world. p,s, If you wish to continue with the Tax Avoidance scandal perhaps it should be under a new listing - post.

Im sorry Atlas I fail to see what Tax Avoidance has to do with a Child Abuser? Is this known as a thread hijack? Or is this part of me starting to understand how things work? Believe you and me I am far more worldly wise then you think.

Please explain.

So no, and to be straight to the point, I don't wish to start a new thread. So feel free to start one yourself.

Also Atlas. I think we are all dreading the next piece of news with relation to how far back this abuse goes? So my statement stands. I dread to think how much more is going to be uncovered. I don't think its more black and white than EVERYONE who has been involved in protecting this child abuser who had this slavish following needs to be brought to justice and exposed.

Hinch Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:55 pm

Jeanie wrote:

I have just watched this programme and feel sad, sickened and betrayed. I was a friend of Cyril's right up to his death and visited him 2-3 times a week at the nursing home before he died .

As a mother of 3 sons my heart goes out to these young men and what they went through, just unbelievable and so very sad .

A brave post Jeanie. It must be hard to accept that someone you liked and admired for so long was a sickening, predatory paedophile. If I have any reservations about Smith's former friends and colleagues, it is that many of them stood by him for so long... Long after the allegations had some obvious basis to them.

My instincts tell me that given his size and public profile, he could not have carried on his activities in secret. His open visits to Elm Lodge alone meant that others must have encouraged him in his vile crimes.

I think that a proper investigation needs to be carried out into who, if anyone, knew what and why they did not come forward.

He was a convincing old sod and had a big personality which he used to effect.

Jeanie Wed Sep 18, 2013 10:12 pm

It goes much deeper than that Hinch, back to 2003 when Labour locally also agreed to keep quiet on this which needs looking into. I am sure the full truth will now come out regarding certain others still alive.

I never believed it back then but, after watching the programme, I know now that anything is not too far from the truth .

I do feel sorry for Cyril's family, it must be a nightmare to hear all of this Shocked

Guest Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:11 pm

Jeanie wrote: I am sure the full truth will now come out regarding certain others still alive.
I never believed it back then but, after watching the programme, I know now that anything is not too far from the truth .
I do feel sorry for Cyril's family, it must be a nightmare to hear all of this

Jeanie: Unfortunately I don't share your confidence about the full truth coming out. 'The Establishment' and it's various organisations has been ' closing ranks ' on this for nigh on 50 years that we already know of, locations may be widespread, including London, and many involved are dead.

There may be low levels of public sympathy for family members and friends of offenders in general but, perhaps like your own comment, we also need to remember that many are genuinely innocent themselves and can be truly distraught at what their relative/friend has done.

They are not culpable, yet may experience backlash from ‘others’ in the community and suffer consequences of stigma and hostility, even social isolation, sometimes even compounded by puerile media impositions .

Support usually comes with an opinion. Family and other friends may need support to be non-judgemental and non-intrusive, otherwise they also become victims of an offender’s crime(s

Atlas Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:45 am

Chill37 wrote:
Atlas wrote:No not really chill37. YOU are becoming more aware of the 'way' things 'work'. Take for example the latest reports through the last Panorama programme on 'TAX AVOIDANCE' - and see just how the 'good and the great' manipulate the structures to enable them to keep 'one step ahead' of the rest of us whilst all the time appearing to be doing 'the right thing'. It's called 'controlling the masses'.You don't need to know therefore for the good of all and so as not to get you all excited WE shall tell you only that which WE think is good for you - ergo - cover-ups and double-dealings. Ti's the way of the world. p,s, If you wish to continue with the Tax Avoidance scandal perhaps it should be under a new listing - post.
Im sorry Atlas I fail to see what Tax Avoidance has to do with a Child Abuser? Is this known as a thread hijack? Or is this part of me starting to understand how things work? Believe you and me I am far more worldly wise then you think.

Please explain.

So no, and to be straight to the point, I don't wish to start a new thread. So feel free to start one yourself.

Also Atlas. I think we are all dreading the next piece of news with relation to how far back this abuse goes? So my statement stands. I dread to think how much more is going to be uncovered. I don't think its more black and white than EVERYONE who has been involved in protecting this child abuser who had this slavish following needs to be brought to justice and exposed.

I was referring to the double-dealing and cover-up - Ref tax-avoidance and the latest news on the subject - as an example of how the 'great and good' utilise the State and all its servants to cover up anything it wishes for the supposed greater good of all and that the same has been happening long, long before I was born - and still is. There is nothing new under the sun in that respect and as for for -how far back - I will tell you. As far back as when I was a boy myself and Cyril was my employer and that was the mid 1950's.
My mother, now dearly departed, had a word or two for jolly old Cyril as she went to school with him and knew him very well. And it wasn't complimentary let me tell you.
But why any of this should raise too many eyebrows, as I have said before, amazes me. It was hardly a big secret in the town. Perhaps the 'extent' which may be revealed may cause some to 'draw breath'. But to the rest of us it's 'old hat'. Acceptance of the many 'quirks' of our species should, to most of us past the prime, be something we are very used to and as such of less 'surprise'. Rolling Eyes

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