Killer arrested

Dale Cregan, the man wanted for killing a father and son with grenades and guns has finally been arrested but not before he shot 2 unarmed police officers, one has died and the other critical.

There are some hellish violent criminals about in Greater Manchester area. The police have done a lot, and are having quite a crack at them now, with 'operation harvest', but short lived operations like that aren't enough, it would take years of intense police work to change the culture, it goes back a long way.

So sad Charly we live in a very violent world

That's two major news stories, this one and the young lady killed on the M62 in a head on crash where innocent people were killed by criminals, we lose good people and the people that kill them are still alive and cluttering up our world. Batman the super power crime fighter is not going to appear and clean up the place, we need much better systems for destroying the criminal culture that is now so apparent.

Those 2 female police officers were unarmed, I imagine they went off to work this morning thinking it was just another day.
How sad.

The 2nd officer has now lost her fight for life.
So not only had he killed 2 men he has now killed 2 women.
What a cowardly bar-steward, he shouldn't see the light of day again.

Shocking turn of events.

Very shocking, but as well as shocked, I am angry.

And what an evil 'bar steward' he is to have lured these ladies to their deaths, a totally premeditated act on his part, pure evil!

I think his bottle must have gone for him to hand himself in.
I guess he would have thought the police had orders to take him any which way they could and he didn't fancy a bullet through his head.

Those poor 2 young ladies left home this morning to do a job they loved may they rest in peace and much sympathy to their families, they were lured into a trap by this maniac it is heartbreaking .

He doesn't deserve to live

Having already ventured upon a path of murder (as per two previous) killing more wouldn't seem too diabolic to this man. How to go out? - - . A police marksman wouldn't be his aim (to coin a pun). Too quick. Too final. Too uneventful. Ergo - how to obtain notoriety and be known without too much pain in the process. Kill big time. Policemen or in this case Policewomen. Seems this may well have been his modus operandi.

What to do to stop more like him. Life must mean LIFE. Prison until the day he expires. No parole or medical expediencies. Personally I would re-institute 'hard labour' as part and parcel of his incarceration. But hey - what do I know?

There does seem to be a fairly widespread and established criminal culture that hides, supports and admires such killers. That in itself is a problem that needs to be addressed. The attitudes and realities that lie behind that need to be objectively understood. As our society here becomes more globalised and complex, and criminals and criminal gangs escalate levels of violence, policing is an increasingly high priority and complicated business. In the long run, the police can only work well if they have the support and co-operation of the public.

I am not saying that the police should be unconditionally supported, whatever they do, but that the politics and psychology behind the relationship between public and police, and the courts and prison system, is an important practical aspect of achieving a fair and safe society. More intelligent and unbiased attention needs to be paid to this. We don't want a society where, because some people are unwilling to help the police to catch murderers, more people are murdered as a result.

I don't know what the answers are, but this murder of two police women with guns and a grenade must surely mark a need for everyone to consider how this kind of thing can be stopped from happening again.

The police have made a second arrest in the policewomans murders, a man is being held on a charge of conspiracy to commit murder.
The police spokesperson also warned officers may still be in danger as they believe there may still be grenades not accounted for.

Just read an update on this which included this;

Police warned of the threat from a long-standing feud between gangs in the area and said the force had issued Osman warnings - notices given to people under threat of being murdered or seriously injured - to a "large number of individuals".

Wonder where this will end?
Radio interviews this morning said he (Cregan) had been seen on the estate and had even been drinking in the pubs!
People were too scared to inform police.
This i'm not surprised about... a recent event near me ended with the police putting flyers through the doors saying 'an arrest has been made due to information from neighbours' which left everyone being blamed for 'grassing' not a good move by them as I know they wont get any more information after that!

I see a little girl has been left without a mother, Fiona Bone and her partner have a daughter Jessie.

I can understand people being frightened of gangs and violent criminals, what puzzles me is why people would make heroes of them. One shooting just leads to another, and the violence escalates, it can be seen the world over. Murderers are not heroes, and people that think they are must to some extent be mentally ill or deranged.

All this amounts to is loss, loss of decent people's lives, and the expense and inconvenience of policing and imprisoning the murderers.

Where on earth are grenades available?
The soldiers serving in war zones dont have enough equipment yet there are grenades on the streets of Manchester!

Apparently brought in (illegally) from ex-Yugoslavia. We'll have landmines protecting the crack houses next.

Going by today's grim and determined display of armed force by the police, let's hope it doesn't escalate any further.

Did I hear a 15 year old boy had been arrested for aiding an offender?
I only caught the tail end of the report

Perhaps 'Gunfight at the O.K. Corall' is now the correct response.

There are no 'no-go' areas in the UK, where police will not go, but there are 'difficult areas' where the risks they face are higher. Would the public find it acceptable for certain areas to be designated as 'difficult' and for officers attending calls there to be routinely armed?

I suspect the police would not be keen on that either. if you go into a situation you are likely to get shot first.

Lets face it, you can't legislate against some head-case wanting to take police out - these poor officers would have stood no better chance if heavily armed.

A bit debatable, John B. It seems one of the women police officers managed to draw a tazer, which was found on the ground. A tazer is slow to use. Armed with pistols, they may have stood a better chance. If police have to go into a situation where they are, as you say, "likely to get shot first", should they not at least be able to return fire?

Whichever way you look at it, the police have now suffered unacceptable casualties, the public are appalled, the situation has to be addressed. The drug trade profits which fuels armed violence shows no sign of abating. Experience in other cities shows this kind things escalates.

Neither public nor police wish for the police to be routinely armed, and much of the UK can be policed without weapons, but, if 'hotspots' of armed gang violence are to be effectively policed, they could be designated as 'difficult' areas, and different rules of engagement apply. The designation could be applied or lifted at the discretion of commanding officers or police commissioners.

Reservations and arguments against this would mainly seem to be about the effect it might have on society and on house and property values.