Air quality

Things could be done to reduce the number of toxic fires, and they need to be, especially in highly populated areas like northwest of England.

Unfortunately, the population don't seem much bothered, or fatalistic about it. Until there is pressure on government to take the necessary steps, people will continue to suffer health effects and shortened lifespan.

And there you have it. Insufficient concern by the general pubics. Nothing new in that.
It seems the raising of the standard and the foray into the fray will have to go your way should you wish to change things. Until then - keep wearing the mask and may 'your' God go with you.

There are a lot of people concerned about air quality now, but middle class educated people rather than Rochdale sort of people, apparently it's causing a lot of health problems these days. Would be good if the 'general public' who live in ex industrial areas took more interest, it's them who breathe in the worst of it.

They would be fighting a losing battle without removing 'road transport' which is the biggest polluter of them all. Not long ago I read of a test taken by a student from Liverpool Uni. A closed car two occupants one smoking for ten minutes. Stopped car took a reading -. Wound window down placed meter outside car at arms length and took another reading. Guess which reading was the highest for pollution? You got it - the one outside. So what chance the rest!!!!

Perhaps some sort of canal system could be constructed to join these major cities such as Leeds and Liverpool. Large heavy quantities of goods and materials could be transported along them. Horses could be used to pull barges along. I must contact the government and tell them of my  revolutionary idea.

There's a possibility they would try and adopt it. What's betting half don't know we already have one!

Piles of burning tyres are usually a sign of trouble, apart from the toxic smoke. Another day of chaos at Calais, and again, piles of burning tyres.

Well I suppose it's better than them burning sheep. They do that you know. Them Froggie farmers. Slightest excuse and it's 'hey up - or should I say - Allors' and half a dozen sheep get grilled just to 'ram' home the point.

But what can one do! They have that Gallic temperament. One sideways glance and it's 'off wi'd their heads mes amis'. They don't fanny around like what we do here with cardboard placards and chaining oneself to trees. Sacre bleu indeed that's what I say.

Very impressive multilinguality. A few basic words of foreign can be useful. The word 'fiasco' is understood throughout the E.U.
Those trying to travel via Calais recently may have picked up a few more useful and expressive words.

Them Froggies already know the famous 'V' sign - so that's wasted on them. I think our truckers should tell them truckers (nearly got that right) that in future we shall be using the Dutch ports instead. Put the bastards out of work. Perhaps then they will attain a sense of proportion.

Looks like it will be a long ongoing and expensive struggle at Calais. The Eurotunnel was always an iffy sort of idea.

I think it's time to build the bridge (8 lane with 4 rail under) and keep them Froggies dancing. They won't be able to man all the routes in and out if we ingress with enough alternatives. Such an idea is long overdue as like the tunnel we can destroy access at a moments notice with today's technology if the danger warrants. Dump H2 and substitute CB1. Yes.

This idea of closing the chunnel may have some merit. I can feel an isolationist phase coming on.

On the thread of 'air quality' it seems nitrous oxide levels are far too high in road traffic areas, the explanation has been found in some rather clever and devious software in car engine management computer systems.

These fumes kill people, will motor manufacturers be facing corporate manslaughter charges? Will a silicon chip be exhibit A?

Will we ever stop trusting business? Will they ever stop trying to rip us off? These and other similar devious questions will be answered if you tune in tomorrow on this band at this time.

This is a very interesting proposition. All the arts based journalists are reporting this as if there is a clandestine physical decive attached to these cars. There is not! The operating parameters of all modern internal combustion engines are controlled by software - called an engine map and this forms part of the control programme for the Engine Management Unit - ECU. The map responds dynamically to the operational conditions detected by various sensors and alters control parameters inside the engine automatically and quickly. This ECU is the device fitted to 11 million cars. How many cars have this particular engine map? who knows!

Is it actually illegal to define an engine map which switches to an ultra low emissions mode when test operation parameters are detected?

I strongly suspect that it isn't, and the resultant court case, flowing from badly designed legislation, will go on for decades.

There you are cyfrifia - I told you didn't I. I'm a mind reader. Pity I can't read my own.

Well done johnb. I knew you would come through.

As for retribution - I suspect you are spot on. One should never underestimate one's fellow man for his disingenuous rabid predation of the available resources and walking away laughing. It's good to know I was right all along - yea.

When the ECU software was tweaked, the engineers probably thought it would remain in the mysterious world of silicon chips, beyond the understanding of anyone but themselves, and so it has for a long time. When Mr. Diesel first invented his engine, it ran on peanut oil.

And they've been monkeying around with it ever since.

The smoking in cars ban comes into force today, although with the 'diesel mistake' and car manufacturers fake emissions scam, it's not clear whether it's safer in the car or outside.

Best thing is to keep away from traffic, even just a little way away from main roads is better. It's a curiously mad set-up with pavements and shops right next to and opening onto main roads. In a lot of places, turning shops round and using the back streets as shopping streets would work better. Still, it's a lot of bother.

Proven 30 years ago that it was safer inside the car than alongside the road especially from a air pollution point of view. Nothing new in the diesel figure related deaths - been known for decades. More concern in those days to smog and pea-soupers which were far more deadly. Hence Clean Air Act 1960's. smokeless fuels 1960's, town centres de-industrialisation policy 1960's. Smoking is a new century thing. The reductions in air pollution diseases including work related and fossil fuel emissions has been reduced by 90%to what it was in my younger days. Removing any 'smoke' or airborne detritus has to be a good thing. The stupidity comes from expecting that 'car' related law to be policed. Just how many more 'laws' are going to be passed which cannot be policed without the resources. It's becoming a complete farce.
Turning the shop fronts around would not solve or even help the problem as the air pollution goes up and spreads and then comes down (especially in wet weather). It has to be better if shopping is pedestrianised or away from main roads. But there's no absolute cure apart from going back to the caves or transforming everything into nuclear/solar/tidal energies.

Turning shops around would be expensive and a lot of trouble, but back streets generally seem less polluted than main roads, depends on local conditions.

So you pedestrianise the back streets and allow only vehicular traffic on the main streets? People would alight or park up on/off the main street and walk to the shopping areas or be transported by moving pavements to the 'back streets'? Seems reasonable if not radical but would be costly in the initial stages. Unfortunately for Rochdale there are no longer any 'back streets' in the town centre in which you could successfully bring this about as all the main areas of shopping are now surrounded by main roads. Thus the back street becomes the front street whichever way around you do it. Hey ho - there you go -. Good idea whilst it lasted.

Rochdale town centre is not ideal for such an arrangement. Air quality doesn't seem to be something people think much about, most seem quite happy to play amongst the traffic.

The mayor of manchester explains that things are hard to explain.
http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/98288/government-must-come-clean-on-air-pollution-scandal-says-mayor

Oh dear oh dear -. We have been aware of street pollution from vehicles since the 1960's if not even before then. It went off the agenda for other considerations but only a fool or the ignorant or lazy would think that it had somehow gone away. Removing the lead and cleaning up the emission's was only successful if the number of vehicles then in use, and after, didn't rise. Common sense tells you that if you reduce the problems by half and increase the cause by 100% then you have what you began with -a pollution problem as bad as that with which you started. Doh!

If technology can solve the diesel emission problem by converting the nitrogen dioxide into nitrous oxide plus oxygen, then we will be laughing instead of dying.