Re: The Iron Lady

cyfrifia Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:07 am

Yes, there have been many years since, where "those in power could have changed things, but didn't."

That legacy of Thatcherism, collapse of belief or confidence in UK governments to simply and properly look after the society and people they govern still remains. We are still waiting for a government that can prove otherwise.

Spartacus Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:54 am

Billy Bragg

This is not a time for celebration.

The death of Margaret Thatcher is nothing more than a salient reminder of how Britain got into the mess that we are in today. Of why ordinary working people are no longer able to earn enough from one job to support a family; of why there is a shortage of decent affordable housing; of why domestic growth is driven by credit, not by real incomes; of why tax-payers are forced to top up wages; of why a spiteful government seeks to penalise the poor for having an extra bedroom; of why Rupert Murdoch became so powerful; of why cynicism and greed became the hallmarks of our society.

Raising a glass to the death of an infirm old lady changes none of this. The only real antidote to cynicism is activism. Don't celebrate - organise!

Well said, Billy.

johnb Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:47 pm

Agreed.

cyfrifia Tue Apr 09, 2013 1:02 pm

Yes, a fair statement, but it is understandable some people will celebrate with parties etc, that is the reality of how many people felt towards Mrs. Thatcher.

Seeing some of the comments by people who thought Mrs. Thatcher was brilliant is interesting and educational. It offers some explanation why some people in politics and public life act like complete b******s. They genuinely do understand things completely differently.

past it Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:12 pm

She hated the unions, working class people, created 3.5 million unemployed, killed off the coal industry by giving Police some of the biggest pay rises in their history, brought in the poll tax, took milk away from children at school, said there was no such thing as society, made her son a life peer, married the wealthiest man she could find, sold off council houses at a fraction of their price, privatised just about everything. She would have been thrown out years ago but was saved by the Falklands and was finally thrown out by her own party.
There are many who did very well out of her and many who never worked again after she destroyed their industries.
She has been eulogised for being re-elected three times, so was Tony Blair. Rose coloured spectacles come to mind.

johnb Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:43 pm

All the usual lies and half truths!

Manufacturing had been killed in the seventies by the rapaciousness of the unions.

While the society quote is true, it is taken so far out of context as to be meaningless (the sense was that society has no independent existence, but is the sum of the actions of the individuals that make it up, and those individuals had a responsibility to care for those around them - look up the interview). Poll tax was no more unfair than the rates system...

The miners? The idiot Scargill chose to go to war, relying on the loyalty of the miners and that the previous governments had been successfully bullied. He is responsible for the destruction of the mining communities and is shown by history ultimately to have been self serving.

I have mixed feelings about council house sales, but Labour have mismanaged the stock at least as much.

Privatisation? Poor industrial practice, weak management and no accountability made the utilities laughing stocks. I f they had been well run in public ownership there would have been no need to privatise.

When all said and done, Blair had 13 years to think about starting to reverse some of the changes. He compounded them.

teamplayer2 Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:55 pm

I have my own Iron Lady. She is ironing my shirt for work. Wink

Guest Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:09 pm

Some of the individual Hate comments made about her reminds me of one of her quotes:

' I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single political argument left. '

pale

cyfrifia Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:36 am

Mrs. T was good with words and difficult to argue with, but didn't seem to understand things properly, always seeing them from her own limited point of view. She did good things and bad things, which sort of cancelled each other out. Like withdrawing the ships that were guarding the Falklands, so giving the Argentinians a diplomatic message that the UK wasn't prepared to defend the islands any longer. The islanders knew that, they said so on UK tv news before the invasion. So what was saved in defence cuts was spent on the war that followed. Similarly with other things, apparently the community charge cost as much to administer as it collected. Cancels itself out. It seems the UK went through 11 years of divisive unpleasantness for no good overall reason or result, just an excursion into one persons political ideas, like a good/bad dream depending where you were when it happened. Divisions in UK society, now emerging again in polarised opinions about her, are the lasting 'domestic' result of Thatcherism.

Hinch Wed Apr 10, 2013 9:39 am

I have PLENTY of arguments left MJH but see no point in casting all my pearls before swine! (No offence intended.)

Hinch Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:15 pm

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/78/opinion/79320/margaret-thatcher-and-the-birth-of-two-nations

Guest Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:21 pm

Hinch wrote:http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/78/opinion/79320/margaret-thatcher-and-the-birth-of-two-nations

Looking back at commentators’ labels on the Forum, there’s some interesting psychology from Mr Hardcastle in this wee snippet from his article ... link above: -

‘You can usually tell what people thought about her by whether or not they referred to her solely by her surname or whether they added the courteous ‘Mrs’. The omission or inclusion of the title providing a fair litmus test for the speaker’s political point of view.’

Having personally stuck to title avoidance by an easy preposition use of “her,” and basically admired the reluctant dignity of comments like Spartacus and Atlas ‘May she rest in peace / RIP,’ my residual comment on here is about an example of our seemingly crazy parliamentary systems, that trundle on and on under successive and different governments

During this Easter recess, MPs have been recalled to Parliament for a tribute session to ex-prime minister Margaret Hilda Thatcher. It seems it couldn’t wait until Monday.

Each MP is officially allowed to claim up to £3,750 in travel expenses to attend this session. Surely the brought forward time and costs were not necessary. Question

Perhaps those who attended will decline this extra largess and continue to develop a trend that has wafted slightly this week out from HBOS.

Charly Thu Apr 11, 2013 12:00 am

Mojo Hill wrote:

Each MP is officially allowed to claim up to £3,750 in travel expenses to attend this session. [i]

Flippineck! where are they travelling from?

Hinch Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:46 am

Respect is something you earn when your are living, not when your are dead.

There was a great furore in Ireland when news had come through about the death of Hitler. Thousands of Irishmen gave their lives in that war. The country was shocked; notwithstanding their often jaundiced view of the UK when De Valara, the Irish President called round to the German embassey to commiserate with them on the death of their leader.

Thatcher showed no respect to me or my class when she was alive. Closest thing we ever got to class war in my lifetime. Wards were closed down in my hospital at a weeks notive and long-stay, potentially violent patients flung out onto the streets. Some of them killed themselves, some harmed others.

Shje got all the titles, honours and respect you could shake a stick at in her own lifetime. Let history and those she harmed remember her how they will.

Jeanie Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:41 pm

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151326202371861&set=a.46642546860.70110.634331860&type=1&relevant_count=1

johnb Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:55 am

Always remember;

The mistakes we make always outlive the good we do.

Rest in peace.

hovis Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:34 pm

this is how l see it. thatchers legacy is a ) she was the first female prime minister and b) as far as l know the first prime minister to be thrown out office by her own party, which did not do them any harm as they went on to win the next general election.there will be people who are sad at her death and people who are happy she is dead. but most people dont care.l think that the media have wipped up peoples feelings by suggesting she is the greatest prime minister we every had and that her almost state funeral will cost us 10 million.there are people in this country who havent got the money to bury their own children, so feelings are running high.listening to the radio today there are also a lot of people who are sick of hearing about her.me l will be glad when she is buried and we get back to what really counts living my life. l must admit l did laugh at the sign that said iron lady rust in peace.

Jeanie Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:14 pm

Whilst I think she did do some good for the country and stood up for her believes, I most certainly do NOT agree she should have a state funeral and am really surprised at her family for allowing it to go ahead ?
If it was my mother I wouldn't have agreed to this more so knowing the mixed emotions of the people let her rest with dignity not hatred that is being caused by all of this !

Guest Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:54 pm

Jeanie wrote: Whilst I think she did do some good for the country and stood up for her believes, I most certainly do NOT agree she should have a state funeral and am really surprised at her family for allowing it to go ahead ?
If it was my mother I wouldn't have agreed to this more so knowing the mixed emotions of the people let her rest with dignity not hatred that is being caused by all of this !

Jeanie: She’s not being given an official State Funeral.

It will be a ceremonial funeral ... which was agreed to in advance a few years ago. As far as I can make out, her two children were not in Britain when she died from a stroke, following a long period of her own ill health and frailty.

(If she had been given an official State Funeral, we would all, by tradition, have had a "day off .. like a public holiday !" Rolling Eyes

)

Hinch Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:42 am

Ding,dong the witch is dead!

Tasteless or not, down here in our wonderful holiday cottage in Blakeney, the champagne is on ice and ready to be opened on the day of her funeral.

The funeral may not officially be designated as a state occasion but her body will be hauled on a gun carriage to St Paul's, heads of state will be there in their dozens and the final bill will run into millions for police overtime and other security.

Were it up to me, I'd throw her body down a mine shaft... if you can find any still open.

A bloody scandal to spend this amount of money in the same month that benefits are being cut to thousands of families in genuine need.

Poppyanna555 Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:59 pm

Got to admire your honesty Hinch, but your timing is so wrong, how about saving this all this venom until after her funeral? just saying......

Hinch Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:14 pm

Excellent suggestion Poppy but like many millions of other UK citizens, I intend to express my venom before, during and after the funeral.

teamplayer2 Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:25 am

So why is she so special to allow money from the state to be used like this when we have cutbacks to some of our most essential services in the country. Are they trying to rub the faces in it for the people who have to suffer because of the cutbacks?

A lot of leaders from the past have not had so much money spent on their funeral.

Prudence Tempered Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:16 pm

Hinch wrote:Ding,dong the witch is dead!

Tasteless or not, down here in our wonderful holiday cottage in Blakeney, the champagne is on ice and ready to be opened on the day of her funeral.

The funeral may not officially be designated as a state occasion but her body will be hauled on a gun carriage to St Paul's, heads of state will be there in their dozens and the final bill will run into millions for police overtime and other security.

Were it up to me, I'd throw her body down a mine shaft... if you can find any still open.

A bloody scandal to spend this amount of money in the same month that benefits are being cut to thousands of families in genuine need.

£10 million of public money to be spent on digging a hole in the ground and filling it in again. It sounds just like the very distorted socialist interpretation of Keynesianism that you should support, Hinch.

past it Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:22 pm

Just an aside Hinch. I have stayed in Blakeney twice, once in the Blakeney Hotel and once in the hotel on the corner as you leave the village. Might be called the Manor.Fab place.
I notice this thread has brought Prudence "get your gear here" Tempered out of his hibernation.

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