Good Neighbours Moving Out

I don't care if this post sounds 'racist' to some, this is my environment as I see it at the moment....I am about to lose a couple of darn good neighbours..... in the name of 'community cohesion'! Two of my good neighbours have had enough, despite living here for all of their 70 plus years. They are having their property valued next week and are seriously contemplating shipping out on the news that our local pub (whose grounds side onto their property) has been sold to a large Muslim family who are currently living on the Waithlands Estate .... and the vibes are that more of my neigbours will follow suit..... I am gutted, good neighbours ....gone forever!  This is what happened to Deeplish, and is now happening in my area, I feel sad.

I am not getting any younger, I fear that I will soon be living in an increasingly isolated environment, completely alien to everything/everyone I know, a community I will not recognise and no longer fit into, in other words, an alien in my own homeland....so scary!

I would find that situation disconcerting, and perhaps scary too. that's why I was asking you about the possibilities of moving house to somewhere more peaceful and pleasant a while ago, Poppy. Your neighbours are thinking the same way. It's more comfortable to live among people you have a shared history and way of life with, especially as you get older. Something to talk over with family and friends, reasons to stay and reasons to move.

I have Asian neighbours and I have white neighbours.

In this country ghettos are made by whies moving out more than Asians moving in.

This is also what happened to Deeplish, and Spotland, and Wardleworth.

Of course it would be the logical thing to do Cyfrifia, if I could afford to but, the sad thing is, I can't.  I have spent a lot of money on my property to make it comfortable and structurally sound. I have just spent £3k on replacement windows and a new conservatory roof (not for cosmetic purposes but because they needed to be replaced).  Nevertheless, because of the ceiling price in my area, I would not benefit upon selling and would end up having to do it all over again no doubt in another property costing the same price mine would sell for, (I do not have the funds).  Besides, the house itself is cosy and  I love it, I have a lovely garden which is 75ft long (most unusual for a terraced cottage) which I spend many hours happily tending during the summer months.

Unfortunately, I have no control over what is happening around me, the drug dealers, the litter, overflowing wheelie bins and fly tipping and the 3 takeaways that have opened up on adjacent streets just yards from each other, which just add to the detritus and, this is just the tip of the iceberg.   Look at Deeplish, there is rarely a week goes by without there having to be an organised 'clean up'..... why? because there doesn't seem to be any civic pride among the residents living there and here is going exactly the same way.

I console myself with the fact that I have good neighbours, most of whom look out for each other, losing them would be a real negative.

And yes JohnB, the problem does exist also because of white people moving out....but have you ever asked the question why?  I am not against 'community cohesion' as such, but this has led to saturation in many areas....leaving you feeling like a foreigner in your own community.

Such has been happening since the 1950s Poppyanna555 and not just with Asian immigration. There is nothing unnatural about people of a same culture and understanding 'banding' together both from a social aspect and a protection aspect. Look at the 'Brit' enclaves abroad. Total integration will take many, many generations. If one takes the American experience one could say 300 years as they have already had at least 200 to get used to the idea and there are still ghettos of one race or another. The world itself, due to travel and employment, is in a state of complete flux regarding this problem. So nothing new there then.
It is unfortunate that you find yourself unable to extricate yourself to a more personally desirable place - but I can assure you that you are not alone by a very long chalk. I have no words of comfort to offer other than keep spinning the 'lottery'. Maybe, just maybe, something will turn up.  

Some integration yes, but "total integration" doesn't really happen, the USA example helps show that.  In Europe and Middle east where ethnic groups have lived peacefully side by side for hundreds of years, they have their own 'quarters' of cities, and trouble flares even after centuries of co-existence.

Yes, it is a widespread problem, affecting many, but it is especially tragic, to see old people become stranded and isolated, surrounded where they live by the influx of a new and foreign community.

It is particularly sad it tends to be the householders who have put most into where they live in terms of time, effort, care and money over the years, that suffer the most.

At local level, how does housing policy work in terms of ethnic areas? Was this planned and predictable, or just happened? Would it have been clear some years ago what future was planned for the neighborhood by 2013/14?

Oh it was planned alright, unfortunately I wasn't aware until it had already started to happen....and at such speed too!

In Rochdale, we are not “sleepwalking into segregation,” but have been actively moving into it. We need some mainstream ‘public’ culture to support our mainstream laws of the land and acceptable norms of ‘respectful’ community neighbourliness.

And therein lies the problem::: Laws. How many 'laws' before that which was bearable becomes unbearable due to too many 'laws'. If people have a culture/tradition/lifestyle handed down by centuries what 'sort' of 'laws' do you suggest should be instituted which won't instantly be be condemned as racist or against the common-rights of the individual to pursue their particular 'lifestyle' in the manner to which they have become accustomed?? It is far easier to institute 'laws' within a community that has the same history but this sort of 'integration' whereby the cultures are at odds and the lifestyles so disparate poses a dilemma the outcome of which can be explosive and dangerous to all.

I am assuming you think that your neighbours don't know the meaning of cleanliness and order and that this is the only 'problem' you have with them? Or is there something deeper that hasn't come to the fore?

Poppyanna555 wrote:Oh it was planned alright, unfortunately I wasn't aware until it had already started to happen....and at such speed too!

If developing the neighbourhood as an Asian housing area was planned as you say, Poppy, I can find no specific reference to that in any R.M.B.C. documents, although obviously great efforts have been made to provide higher standards of housing for Asian families.

http://www.rochdale.gov.uk/pdf/2006-11-10_housing_strategy_asian_communities_v1.pdf

Perhaps this was "planned" in an informal, 'behind the scenes' way? Something like that happened in Todmorden a while back. Someone in Calderdale apparently came to an arrangement with West Yorkshire Police and the courts to break up long established and increasingly problematic hard drug 'cultures' in Halifax areas and, as an alternative to prison etc., to 'therapeutically' move drug dealers and users to 'rural' Todmorden housing areas.

This wasn't announced to the host communities, but obviously happened. It would have been fairer, particularly on parents to let them know this was happening. The amount of hard drugs available, and attempted burglaries increased suddenly and sharply.

There may have been a 'behind the scenes' protest about it. The 'theraputic re-housing' policy stopped as suddenly as it had started.

It is not fair on householders that such drastic and difficult changes to where they live, that affect lives so drastically, should be planned and implemented in secret, with no support or information.

Or, perhaps in the case of Rochdale, the plans for which communities are to be housed within which areas of has been planned and announced in an open, formal and above the board way?

If householders and parents are forewarned, they can do something to defend themselves and their families, whether schools are advised of these sort of semi-official policies, who knows?

Atlas wrote: I am assuming you think that your neighbours don't know the meaning of cleanliness and order and that this is the only 'problem' you have with them? Or is there something deeper that hasn't come to the fore? Rolling Eyes


YES there IS something deeper Atlas. So...let me enlighten you. NOOO cleanliness and order is not the only problem ..... we residents have been the victims of many incidents of anti-social behaviour, which includes the vandalism of residents' properties/cars (including a visitor's car), open drug dealing, intimidations, fires (followed by bricking the firemen and putting police vehicle windows through when they show up, which didn't just happen in Deeplish, it happened here too), thefts (one family even woke up to find their garden fencing had been removed overnight to stoke up one of their fires), also wheelie bins stolen and set on fire, racist graffiti, stolen cars ..... get the picture?   All this has been well-documented in my previous posts on this forum Atlas and, contrary to some beliefs, 'scroates' are not the sole product of an indigenous white population ..... hee-heck .... would you believe it ?



Rochdale Council have not left one of their much-sought-after CCTV cameras in situ on our street for almost 18 months because of ' a perceived issue of lack of cleanliness;' these camera's are like gold!


BUT, if after all this you feel that I must have an 'hidden agenda,' of course that is your choice

It would be nice to think of exactly the opposite, 'good neighbors moving in'.

To be honest poppyanna555 I 'was' probing intentionally the 'reason/s' for your distress in order that you would post the above narrative in order to broadcast more widely that 'some' integration has been successful. It would appear some of our 'values' - as listed in your post - have been taken up. These are of course not the values the majority of us would aspire to or wish to be emulated by the up and coming generations and, not to put it more bluntly, do the rest of us a dis-service if our ethnic neighbours are allowing their offspring to become akin to the 'scroates' we have all come to know and abhor from within our own white population.

Under those 'conditions' I see no hope for the neighbourhood regardless of ethnicities. You are another 'victim' of our times. The best you can hope for is that times will get better.

They do say these things go in cycles. Perhaps you might get lucky. I hope so.

Thank you Atlas.

Poppyanna555 wrote:

In Rochdale, we are not “sleepwalking into segregation,” but have been actively moving into it.  

Poppyanna:  This appears continuing; following on from the Wardleworth / Hamer 'new build' Phases -

Deeplish set for new homes boost

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/82893/deeplish-set-for-new-homes-boost

The article's attached comment of needs for 1-bed affordable rent in the borough, allowing downgrading and freeing up of larger properties, may overlook a basis that Deeplish neighbourhood is persistently being developed as an Asian housing area.  

I often wonder what, if any, social interactions young children have with other ethnicities, especially when local Primary schooling shows integration voids.

Mojo Hill wrote:

I often wonder what, if any, social interactions young children have with other ethnicities, especially when local Primary schooling shows integration voids.

I do believe they bring a coach load of inner-city children from Liverpool to visit Deeplish school for a day (and the trip is reciprocated) once a year.
All of one day hey -going that extra mile.

Unfortunately it has been a 'generational' thing. For example - my generation (those born slightly before or during the war years) were fed upon an educational system of 'empire' hence British best and pure and therefore we had no concept of a multi-ethnic society that would include other than non-white European or Empire travelers. I have a suspicion (although I could be persuaded otherwise) that the next generation were fed a similar load of 'guff' but with less emphasis on 'British is Best'. It was my generation that administered the large influx of Asian immigrants and instead of taking time and advice from other nations who had experienced such rapid 'ethnic' immigration and its consequences chose to 'know best' (because we always did know best of course) with the result that no effort of any great consequence was made to fully integrate the new citizens from the onset - the biggest mistake of all that of mixed schooling -. We see the results today and we shall suffer the 'administrative fools' of my generation for many years to come.
Sometimes it is necessary to 'mandate' society for the society's own good. Unfortunately we haven't had the politicians since the war brave enough to take such steps. A sign of the times perhaps. But very sad nevertheless.

Any houses up for sale next to you Atlas or Chill37. I will buy them and move in.