Re: Mayan Apocalype

UP THE DALE Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:08 pm

On this issue I believe Greenpeace and other environmental organisations, and it's especially worrying regarding what's happening with the Arctic- a massive loss of the ice cap in the last decade. If governments do their job properly humans can be moved into safer areas, and looked after, but what of other animals, will they or can they adapt in time to the new climates, ice loss etc. Already there have been massive declines in some animal populations down to to global warming.

The difference between this global warming and previous ones, is the speed it is occurring, which in the opinion of independent scientists and organisations like Greenpeace is down largely to humankind.

In my opinion the country is not moving quickly enough to develop green energy, and is planning to spend far too much on Nuclear energy, for which they have not solved all the safety concerns especially the waste products. Again on this issue I support in the main what the Greens say. The rest of the political parties are too much in the back pocket of the energy companies.

It is crazy the amount of building occurring on flood-planes, when there are still many suitable brown field sites available.

Chill37 Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:15 pm

Well for example. Take the River Spodden. Theres a section along the River Spodden called Blue bell wood. Normally the section there is a like a babbling brook. However, when it tips it down like it has been doing the whole area gets flooded out. Thats not climate change in my books. Unless you put the climate change to why it rains so much. To clarify. flood plains have always been around. They may not always flood and the area looks safe, but when we get extreme weather they flood.

Now Im not saying all the houses are built on flood plains but some are and look what happens.

Hinch Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:25 pm

I think that climate change is probably making the situation worse BUT developers have been building on known flood-plains for decades. Quite how they get planning permission and why the government should expect insurance companies to take on the risk beats me.

It also seems to be equally unacceptable to expect the taxpayer to fork out where flood-plains have been built upon knowingly and therefore recklessly. In these cases, it should be the developers who fork out unless they have included flood-barriers and other anti-flood measures into their plans.

cyfrifia Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:29 pm

Take the money and run. Cool

Prudence Tempered Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:39 pm

Chill37 wrote: Thats not climate change in my books. Unless you put the climate change to why it rains so much.

If that isn't the definition of climate change then I don't know what is.

UP THE DALE Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:40 pm

I agree regarding the flood planes. If a developer wants to build they should be legally forced to provide full fences, maybe even provide basic insurance.

Chill37 Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:51 pm

Prudence Tempered wrote:
Chill37 wrote: Thats not climate change in my books. Unless you put the climate change to why it rains so much.

If that isn't the definition of climate change then I don't know what is.

Well the said same example of river also floods when it snows and then said snows melt.

Chill37 Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:58 pm

As you can tell Im not paying too much attention to global warming, as not one month goes by with out one high ranking person saying "oooohhh only one more day/week/year to save the planet before its too late" Ive been hearing that for as long as I can remember.

Prudence Tempered Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:00 pm

Chill37 wrote:Well the said same example of river also floods when it snows and then said snows melt.

Of course it does but I don't see what point you're making.

Charly Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:12 pm

UP THE DALE wrote: Already there have been massive declines in some animal populations down to to global warming.

Flippineck! is that where my pet dinosaur went? Rolling Eyes

Chill37 Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:13 pm

Prudence Tempered wrote:
Chill37 wrote:Well the said same example of river also floods when it snows and then said snows melt.

Of course it does but I don't see what point you're making.

Well I siad when it rains heavy the river floods. Your response was that is down to global warming. So i pointed out the river still floods when is snows. But I suspect you will put the heavy snow down to global warming. Which is a bit ironic as global warming tells me the Earth is rising in temperature yet we are getting colder winters and as for Summer. We get more rain.

Im sorry but thanks to all these sooth sayers that every other day is the last day to save the planet I dont see any difference from one week to the next.

I half expect to open the curtains one day to find the outside world to be like Venus!!!

Some one is making a lot of money out of this.

Prudence Tempered Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:18 pm

That's why it should more accurately be called climate change rather than global warming.

Chill37 Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:25 pm

Prudence Tempered wrote:That's why it should more accurately be called climate change rather than global warming.

So when is it exactly going to change?

When will it be too late to stop it?

Prudence Tempered Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:28 pm

You've said yourself that the winters are getting colder and the summers wetter. So it's happening already. The only real question is whether any or all of that change is due to human activity.

UP THE DALE Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:36 pm

Climate change is indeed the proper term. Some areas are warming up, some are cooling down I believe, such as Antarctica from what I understand is increasing it's ice mass. Apparently the decline of the Arctic masses effects our weather but I do not understand the science behind it-something to do with Atlantic weather streams and their direction of. I understand overall the temperature of our planet is warming up, and at a far faster rate than any other time in history.

Of course the deforestation of large parts of the world are having adverse affects on the climate etc, greenhouse gasses that are not natural developments of the earth-all down to humans, even the large amount of gasses thrown out by cattle, as they are so large in number to serve the human population.

Chill37 Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:36 pm

Prudence Tempered wrote:You've said yourself that the winters are getting colder and the summers wetter. So it's happening already. The only real question is whether any or all of that change is due to human activity.

Sorry to be pandantic, so its NOT global warming anymore BUT climate change. Ive noted that down.When did that happen?! Who changed their minds?

So when is it too late? What happens when its too late? is this the Mayan warning?. Dec 21st is when its too late!

Run to the hills!

Prudence Tempered Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:04 pm

Chill37 wrote:Sorry to be pandantic, so its NOT global warming anymore BUT climate change. Ive noted that down.When did that happen?! Who changed their minds?

It didn't happen. Global warming is just one aspect of climate change, it may even be the major cause but the two terms aren't exactly interchangeable.

Even though global warming is occurring it's more accurate to use the term climate change to describe what is going on. Just because the average earth temperature is rising doesn't mean that's true in all places and at all times.

Irishman Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:35 pm

Prudence Tempered wrote:
Chill37 wrote: Thats not climate change in my books. Unless you put the climate change to why it rains so much.

If that isn't the definition of climate change then I don't know what is.

We've had bad weather lots of rain in the 50s Prudence, just now everything is concreted over and drains put in so it runs into rivers and there you get the floods. When it rains heavy there's a river running down my road because it can't get away, half the gardens around me have been concreted to park the family car, there is no green area to soak up this rain so it all goes downhill and someone's home gets a soaking.

That's how they build swimming pools Prudence 'Concrete', the water can't get away, does that not tell you anything? Laughing

There's no denying climate change is happen, climate change has been happening since this planet cooled down billions of years ago, slightly before you existed. Smile

Prudence Tempered Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:49 pm

I agree with you that building on flood plains and the redirecting of vast quantities of rain by building across water courses is making matters even worse, but that is not an argument against climate change being a real event.

The news reported the other night that the much-used phrase "a month's worth of rain fell in a singe day" is almost irrelevant as they are having to redefine what is meant by 'a month's worth of rain'. If you want to argue that increased rainfall is caused by concrete then go ahead.

Irishman Tue Nov 27, 2012 5:58 pm

You must start reading the posts Prudence, where did I say concrete caused rain fall? If that's the extent of your knowledge on Climate change, then there isn't a great deal of point in continuing. Shocked

Prudence Tempered Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:04 pm

Irishman wrote:You must start reading the posts Prudence, where did I say concrete caused rain fall? If that's the extent of your knowledge on Climate change, then there isn't a great deal of point in continuing.

My point was that you seemed to be claiming that concrete causes floods. That's true but then so does increased and intense rainfall. If you want to argue that concrete causes rainfall then please go ahead - that's what I said and you should read posts more carefully.

Irishman Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:24 pm

As I suspected Prudence, concrete does not cause rainfall, our weather system does that, concrete does cause areas to flood because of large scale concrete. The more we concrete the more areas will flood, water has to go somewhere and if the earth doesn't soak it up it will gather in areas in large amounts, hence the flooding.

The weather is no worse or indeed better than it was in the 50s.60s.70s.80s.90s, just less concrete.

You need to check your own post then Prudence, you said and I quote " If you want to argue that increased rainfall is caused by concrete then go ahead".

Prudence Tempered Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:00 pm

"If you want to argue that increased rainfall is caused by concrete then go ahead".

Exactly. If you do want to argue that then feel free. Because even though to are right to say that development in floodplains and across watercourses increases the likelihood of flooding then so does increased rainfall. More relevantly, floods are caused not just by overall rainfall but by the fact that it now happens more often in intense periods of cycles of drought and downpour. Or in the case of many parts of Britain there has been sustained rain over a period of time that has filled the aquifers after which torrents of storm water have simply flashed off the hillsides on to the inhabited areas below. In most areas this has little or nothing to do with concrete.

Some of the areas that have been affected this year have not been in areas of increased development nor have they had more building upstream of them, they have simply been victim to a deluge of rainfall trying to find its way downhill at the same time.

Some figures about rainfall have just been shown on the news with weather stations all over reporting record levels. Maybe development in the wrong places has made things even worse than they would have been but there is very little doubt that the main reason for flooding is the sheer amount of intense rain.

Irishman Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:20 am

You're not getting it Prudence concrete does not cause rainfall.

Chill37 Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:40 am

Prudence Tempered wrote:
Chill37 wrote:Sorry to be pandantic, so its NOT global warming anymore BUT climate change. Ive noted that down.When did that happen?! Who changed their minds?

It didn't happen. Global warming is just one aspect of climate change, it may even be the major cause but the two terms aren't exactly interchangeable.

Even though global warming is occurring it's more accurate to use the term climate change to describe what is going on. Just because the average earth temperature is rising doesn't mean that's true in all places and at all times.

Ok so why do these 'experts' keep changing their minds over when is the last day before its too late?

Cant they make up their minds or something. Personally I think the majority of it is a sham to get more money etc out of us. Byu that I mean buying electric cars or hybrid cars. Green Tax to spend on new Eco Tech like wind turbines etc.

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