Rochdale should create a riverside, heritage themed town centre

Guest Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:42 am

Rochdale should create a riverside, heritage themed town centre with a visitor economy, say the authors of a report into the future of Greater Manchester town centres.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/78770/rochdale-should-create-a-riverside-heritage-themed-town-centre

Hinch Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:58 am

Am BROADLY in favour of the overall plan but the £2.5m refurbished entrance to the Wheatsheaf is bonkers plus the new shopping centre needs a big injection of reality.

And please... no more mosques.

We need to reflect our own indigenous history and heritage rather than cobble together some sort of Heinz 57/Rainbow-coloured Disneyesque nightmare that means nothing to anyone.

Oh, and if a video is going to be produced, let's have a proper job not summat churned out on an iPad by an enthusiastic member of TCM!

cyfrifia Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:36 am

Hinch wrote:We need to reflect our own indigenous history and heritage rather than cobble together some sort of Heinz 57/Rainbow-coloured Disneyesque nightmare that means nothing to anyone.

Cyfrifia said: Doesn't a 'heritage' theme mean looking back in time to how Rochdale was, rather than forward to what it is becoming?

And then, Hinch replied Razz

When I hear the word heritage I want to reach for my revolver!

I once visited the Glencoe Heritage Interpretation Centre. Dreadful!

A modern looking Swedish-style wooden chalet containing nothing more than a few poster-boards containing artists impressions of the war of the clans, an old looking crofters handloom and the usual gift shop selling jam, pencil-cases, shortbread and tea towels.

Somehow they always seem to work in a section on the history of slavery.

No value whatsoever.

Heritage, at its worst is a tacky spin-off of the merchandising industry with a rose-tainted (sic) view of a past that has been 'Disneyfied' and sanitised for the modern, unsophisticated and undemanding audience.

"Roll up, roll up. Get your replica flat caps and plastic clogs 'ere."

Daily grouch over.

Guest Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:16 pm

The report does make good points and at least tries to look beyond a pointless desire by Rochdale Council to build another shopping centre when one of the two that already exists has failed and is in administration and the other is struggling.

However, there are some frankly risible points made, and it is no surprise that those consulted in researching the report were council officers and councillors when you read things like:

Hostile media...

Rochdale has a long term development strategy and a short term action plan to stimulate vitality, especially on the retail and leisure front. However, wider buy-in for this approach across the community is hampered by the local media which does not feel constrained in reporting criticism of the council...

The local media is hostile in response to Rochdale Council hostility - don't give it if you can't take it!

As for being "hampered" because the "local media which does not feel constrained in reporting criticism of the council" - and so the local media shouldn't, we are after all living in England not some communist dictatorship were criticism is not allowed. If the Council approach is sound then it can surely stand up to scrutiny and criticism. Public scrutiny and criticism is an essential check and balance on those spending OUR money is it not?

And if you want a chuckle then how about this:

Particular strengths
Independent town centre management

Independent? In theory yes, in reality much of the funding for TCM comes from the Council, I am sure you can come to your own conclusion based on that. I will leave you to decide based on the state of the town centre if you think TCM is a "particular strength" for Rochdale.

Hinch Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:23 pm

The local media is far more restrained in its criticism of the council than the man and woman in the street or on the bus.

The Planners programme needed no media spin and showed everyone just how piss-poor the council is.

Should I be more 'restrained' in my reportage? You choose!

Charly Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:43 pm

Rochdale council do appear to be in a league of their own when it comes to coping with criticism from any quarter and have an A* in 'head in the sand' syndrome.

Chill37 Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:49 pm

Charly wrote:Rochdale council do appear to be in a league of their own when it comes to coping with criticism from any quarter and have an A* in 'head in the sand' syndrome.

Couldnt have put it better my self.

Hinch Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:18 pm

I don't think it's the sand they have their heads stuck I although it does have an A in it.

Charly Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:11 pm

I was trying to be polite Hinch! Laughing

johnb Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:06 pm

I honestly don't see that the river will make that much difference.

What matters is what is done with Drake Street and Yorkshire Street and the land contained in and surrounding Drake Street, Manchester Road, St Mary's Gate, John Street and Molesworth Street.

Slum clearance of the Milkstone Road ans Tweedale Street areas would not go amiss either.

Hinch Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:25 pm

I have been thinking that my own local media organisation should take a softer line with the council. I have a few ideas to discuss with the boss:-

1. Merge RO with the RMBC Media Team to ensure that only good news is reported.

2. When interviewing councillors, instead of asking tough, searching questions, ask them what their favourite food, colour, boy-bands are etc.

3. When covering council meetings, report on the styles that the councillors are wearing.

4. Stop reporting crime.

5. Stop 'Council Watch' and replace with 'Councillor of the Month'.

I will let you know what he says.

Charly Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:02 pm

Do you think it will be printable? Laughing

Jeanie Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:05 pm

Hinch wrote:I have been thinking that my own local media organisation should take a softer line with the council. I have a few ideas to discuss with the boss:-

1. Merge RO with the RMBC Media Team to ensure that only good news is reported.

2. When interviewing councillors, instead of asking tough, searching questions, ask them what their favourite food, colour, boy-bands are etc.

3. When covering council meetings, report on the styles that the councillors are wearing.

4. Stop reporting crime.

5. Stop 'Council Watch' and replace with 'Councillor of the Month'.

I will let you know what he says.

Excellent idea Hinch loads more Councillors definitely on-board I might just sign up again Wink

Atlas Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:30 am

johnb wrote:I honestly don't see that the river will make that much difference.

What matters is what is done with Drake Street and Yorkshire Street and the land contained in and surrounding Drake Street, Manchester Road, St Mary's Gate, John Street and Molesworth Street.

Slum clearance of the Milkstone Road ans Tweedale Street areas would not go amiss either.

I'm surprised at your lack of 'vision' johnb! The person who ran the line ' to serve as a tourist attraction' hits the nail right on the head. Shopping (with Rochdale's past) is a very difficult starter therefore to accomplish the latter you need a 'teaser' which in Rochdale's case would be its 'heritage' and thus the former ' tourist attraction'. The formula works johnb - as proven many thousands of times over if you look around your own country - but first comes an added warning-. When deciding to visit the town the would be adventurer would obtain a 'perception' of what he is expecting. When visiting the town the experience has to match the 'perception' otherwise the consequential bad publicity will kill any attempted project stone dead. Therefore - if the river is to be opened and if the additional attractions are added they MUST be of first class quality and serviced in the same manner. Given that these are in place the shopping will inevitably be boosted especially if an outdoor market is added a couple of days a week.

johnb Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:17 pm

Never forget that Rochdale's USP was that it had covered a stinking and fetid river to create a modern transport interchange, an open, airy town centre and cement communication links between the north and the south of the town.

The covered river was one of the wonders of the age!

If we are going to move, let's move forward, and in that context the environs bounded by the inner ring road and around the canal basin area (around St Johns and the Firestation) are crucial.

There is no point in opening the river unless something is done about the festering sores around these parts.

Atlas Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:30 am

You don't have to remind ME about a stinking foetid river johnb - I lived alongside it and the canal for nigh on 30 years. But that is no longer true. Your comment regarding the environs are without doubt important and efforts should be made in those directions - however - every journey begins with the first step. Start with what you have best - that's your town centre and work outwards. Success breeds success and pride comes alongside it. Show willing, make the effort, produce the goods and the rest will follow.

Chill37 Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:15 am

Spot on about the River- its not fetid or stagnent anymore as JohnB continues to refer too. I remember many years ago it was in that state but not anymore. So TBH can we move on from that negative. I know the uncovering of the river isnt the whole answer merely a very small step in the right direction.

Now to me a HUGE step in the right direction would be to get rid of all the experts in charge, such as those who championed and frothed at the mouth over the bunch of metal boxes, the current Town Centre Managment charged with promoting our Town (see the metal boxes) and also the now infamous mobile phone made video to get more cash.

However as JohnB has said the areas around the Firestation and St Johns do need to be cleaned up and sorted. How? Well start with a whole blitz on the red light area , and to sound cliched, lets get back the area for us.

I know the rebuilding of the rail station is fast approaching on the horizon so that will open up the old subway and get more access to the area at the back of the station instead of the quite substantial walk around the block to get to the park and ride just built. As to be honest its not that well used. I always thought some park and ride spaces were going to be made at the end of Station Road just opposite the cash and carry place, but I think that area os for station staff.

Atlas Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:10 am

Hinch and I will drink to that - what say you kiddo? Wink

Hinch Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:35 am

Absolutely. McClure Road could be lovely with a restored or refurbished railway station and fire station and the thrillingly beautiful St John's Church. Could be a real gateway to Rochdale.

As for the working girls and their punters; that's a tougher nut to crack. The trade has survived for thousands of years. So sad to see these girls; many of them very young, 'hawking their mutton '. No amount of crack-downs will stamp it out.

A vile trade with addiction, brutality and slavery built in as standard. Moving them on is no answer. Neither is naming and shaming their customers.

Chill37 Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:17 am

OF course naming and shaming the punters will not help. Maybe target the 'pimps' behind the trade. Simpilistic I know but they are ultimatly responsible for the girls plying their trade.

Hinch Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:32 am

Most of the street girls are freelance and don't use pimps.

Atlas Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:36 am

Or we could do the sensible thing and 'legalise' it all. affraid

Only idiots and fools fight battles they can't win. Wink

teamplayer2 Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:52 am

You do have something there about making it legal Atlas. Hinch is good on the comments he made. If made legal it might reduce some of the problems. Though in the past even the police said about making prostitution legal and could be policed a lot easier and protect the working girls at the same time.

Like Hinch said it will never go away but making it legal and raise money from potential tax revenues as well.

So sad that some people would use such a service but may resolve a few problems at the same time.

Better to have at least some control than the out of the control areas we have on the streets at the moment.

johnb Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:05 pm

Just been out in Rochdale. I didn't think a town could be so depressed.

Business on Drake Street has been decimated by the Metrolink. That work should have been finished as quickly as possible but instead has been allowed to drag on for years. Kindest answer might be to CP all the street and start again.

Town is dead. I remember seeing more people on early closing afternoons in my youth. Even more empty premises the Wheatsheaf might have 50% occupancy. The Walk is dead. Yorkshire Street is not much better. But the Exchange has a new Iceland and Bargain Housewares! Just what the town needs, obviously Sad

Do our councillors, planners and executives actually walk the streets? Do they see the desolation we do? Do they care?

Guest Sat Mar 23, 2013 5:37 pm

teamplayer2 wrote:You do have something there about making it legal Atlas. Hinch is good on the comments he made. If made legal it might reduce some of the problems. Though in the past even the police said about making prostitution legal and could be policed a lot easier and protect the working girls at the same time.

Like Hinch said it will never go away but making it legal and raise money from potential tax revenues as well.

So sad that some people would use such a service but may resolve a few problems at the same time.

Better to have at least some control than the out of the control areas we have on the streets at the moment.

TP: ‘The Dutch experiment in legalised prostitution has been an absolute unmitigated disaster.’

The Dutch government hoped to play the role of the "honourable pimp," taking its share in the proceeds of prostitution through taxation, but very few registered for tax. The boom there is over, 12-years on from legal benediction.

A third of Amsterdam’s bordellos have been closed due to the involvement of organised criminals and drug dealers and the massive increase in trafficking of women.

Nowhere else in the world is street prostitution legal.

Police now acknowledge that red-light districts have mutated into a global hub for human trafficking and money laundering.

The streets there have been infiltrated by grooming gangs seeking out young, vulnerable girls and marketing them ….. Lessons learnt?

http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8835071/flesh-for-sale/

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