Turnaround Specialist for town centre.

I see reading on Rochdale Online a specialist has poured cold water on town centre regeneration. I think he is bang on on what he is saying as reported.

Rouchdale Council refuse to comment at this stage?

If this is not reason enough to rid the council of the old guard and see new faces who want to see a rise in the fortunes of the town of Rochdale, and take those brilliant observations that have been commented on by an expert. Then if we do not take those comments on board then we deserve the council we have got at the moment.

It seems to be the old comparison of "turning round an oil tanker", it takes a long time from deciding to change course to anything happening, and predicting what the circumstances might be when it does finally turn, as the maneuver of turning is fraught with dangers.

The effect of big decisions made in politics rarely become apparent until seven years later, which is why it's important to get them right in the first place. Short term expediency is impractical in the long run.

RMBC et all wont listen to the real experts- why change the habit of a lifetime. Just look at the metal boxes that was pushed at all costs despite the fact they were an utter joke and beyond silly!

RMBC will continue with their scorch earth policy droping building and spending tens of millions on shiny council buildings. I , and others, have said on here we don't need another shopping centre but we are getting one how it will be filled is anyone guess. Considering we have a bankrupt Wheatsheaf Centre and nearly a 2/3 empty Exchange Centre.

Can you hear the knocking of another nail?

How much more of this stupidity is going to be allowed?

The only guaranteed way to make them listen is to sack them all. How? Put up a councilor for every ward in the borough at the next council election - the - SAY NO PARTY. Be strictly non-political. Concentrate on a total borough non-payment of 'rates' to enable the 'new' councilors to institute a sensible form of town regeneration and a complete 'sweep-out' of ineffectual non-productive employees from every council department in the place. Radical?? Absolutely. But just imagine the national publicity and the 'wake-up' call you will send out - and the 'spoils' and a chance to do things right for once.

Chill37 wrote:RMBC et all wont listen to the real experts- why change the habit of a lifetime.  Just look at the metal boxes that was pushed at all costs despite the fact they were an utter joke and beyond silly!

RMBC will continue with their scorch earth policy droping building and spending tens of millions on shiny council buildings.  I , and others, have said on here we don't need another shopping centre but we are getting one how it will be filled is anyone guess.  Considering we have a bankrupt Wheatsheaf Centre and nearly a 2/3 empty Exchange Centre.

Can you hear the knocking of another nail?
How much more of this stupidity is going to be allowed?  

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/rochdale-town-centre-contract-signed-5269227     24/07/13

A cinema - perhaps a good idea? Shops - more - hmmm. Can't see that such a boon? A hotel - does Rochdale need a new hotel? I didn't see where a 'specialist' was mentioned other than with the developers - and that doesn't fill me with 'great expectation'. I see any rejuvenation of the town centre as more an aesthetic project rather than a commercial project. There appears to be an over abundance of commercial already festering away and under-used. ???? A GOOD town centre has to be attractive to the eye quickly followed by the satisfying of the perception. Does no-one in Rochdale understand that???  

Atlas wrote:A cinema - perhaps a good idea? Shops - more - hmmm. Can't see that such a boon? A hotel - does Rochdale need a new hotel? I didn't see where a 'specialist' was mentioned other than with the developers - and that doesn't fill me with 'great expectation'. I see any rejuvenation of the town centre as more an aesthetic project rather than a commercial project. There appears to be an over abundance of commercial already festering away and under-used. ???? A GOOD town centre has to be attractive to the eye quickly followed by the satisfying of the perception. Does no-one in Rochdale understand that???   

Cinema- fantastic idea.  Make it a family oriented area like the Rock.  Quality food outlets etc. We used to have a cinema in the centre.  But the Bingo bug put paid to them.

We dont need a Hotel.

So by the end of this very week we will have a new white elephant foisted upon us despite the evidence saying we DONT need a new shopping centre.

Oh dear me. 

A town centre is not something that you can chop up into segments and take each in isolation. The 'whole' thing has to be viewed from the one perspective on each of its main arteries (of which there are three). Each approach must be instantly pleasing to the eye and portray an ambient welcome. Has nobody got any 'vision' for Pete's sake. 

Atlas wrote:A town centre is not something that you can chop up into segments and take each in isolation. The 'whole' thing has to be viewed from the one perspective on each of its main arteries (of which there are three). Each approach must be instantly pleasing to the eye and portray an ambient welcome. Has nobody got any 'vision' for Pete's sake. 

Lots of people have visions.  Just none of them are in any position to do anything.  So we are stuck wtih Cllr Lambert and his band of merry men and women who are hell bent on pushing through ill concived ill thought out plans and shopping centres that will never ever be filled.  But then again the previous Council were no better when on the whole. they were more interested in mud slinging finger pointing to the point they self imploded.

So it was a case of fiddling whilst Rochdale burnt, or rather went to the dogs.

The legacy of this incompentence and in fighting  is 50 Smith Street and the scorched earth policy blighting Rochdale.  This stands to their incompetence that, when in talks to build 50 Smith Street, they didnt even think of a get out clause! Unbelievable! Well that's if you believe Cllr Lambert's on the record comments that he tried to stop the obscene waste of money that a broke Council somehow found and spent on this hideous building.

A common vision that is shared is quality independant shops maybe on open /closed Markets or filling up the empty units.  Lets give up the idea of enticing big name companies.  They wont touch Rochdale with a barge pole at the moment.  Bearing in mind Rochdale East centre piece was super market.  Another Aldi anyone?!  Small quality shops wil get footfall up (in my opinion) and more people into the centre.  Then maybe try and get bigger quality shops in.  

But as I said what do i know apart from common sense.

Well it's certainly long out of time but it's never too late. Instead of thinking 'renovation' or 'rejuvenation' it's time to think 'Rebirth'. It may sound callous or even scandalous to some but the town centre requires a total 100% rethink as to where its going and how to obtain it. It is fast becoming a place of diverse cultures and more cosmopolitan that it has ever been in the whole of its existence and thus requires a fresh vision into its whole future. Some buildings may have to go 'completely' if the whole is to 'blend' and further future aspirations. The idea of mixing the old with the new is a delicate balance but if done with care and thought can be achieved. Space and ease of access with a vibrant atmosphere and a blend of easy on the eye surroundings. Forget the 'who pays and how do we make it profitable' syndrome of the accountant. Obtain the former and the latter with inevitably follow. But who amongst you are brave enough - ask the question when next time that 'man' or 'woman' asks you to vote for them.

No its never too late.  

However mixing old with the new?  There is really not that much old left in Rochdale with the scorched earth policey.  How many great building have we lost? To be replaced by car parks and ugly builidngs


Oh and I'm very brave to ask the question or any question for that mater, when the person knocks on my door next year.

But hey its ok as in a 'few days' the new Pound Centre will be signed off and we can all look forward to the future.

Atlas wrote:Well it's certainly long out of time but it's never too late. Instead of thinking 'renovation' or 'rejuvenation' it's time to think 'Rebirth'. It may sound callous or even scandalous to some but the town centre requires a total 100% rethink as to where its going and how to obtain it. It is fast becoming a place of diverse cultures and more cosmopolitan that it has ever been in the whole of its existence and thus requires a fresh vision into its whole future. Some buildings may have to go 'completely' if the whole is to 'blend' and further future aspirations. The idea of mixing the old with the new is a delicate balance but if done with care and thought can be achieved. Space and ease of access with a vibrant atmosphere and a blend of easy on the eye surroundings. Forget the 'who pays and how do we make it profitable' syndrome of the accountant. Obtain the former and the latter with inevitably follow.  But who amongst you are brave enough - ask the question when next time that 'man' or 'woman' asks you to vote for them.

I agree with a good deal of what you have said.

The rejunvenation and vibrant atmosphere is a must.  As lets be honest I do not feel safe in Rochdale.  I feel a whole lot safer in other Towns.  Not saying that Rochdale crime levels are more than other towns but its the sense of safety or the gangs that hang around etc or the layout of the centre.

I note that other towns of similar size have balanced old and new.  Look at Oldham..They are using the old Town Hall as a frontage/portion of the new cinema complex.  If that had been Rochdale I would win a bet that RMBC would have torn down anything in its way. it would be really nice if building where re-cyclied where ever and whenever possible.  I mean I know some buildings have to come down.  But the swimming baths were pulled down in record quick time.  Was it really that unstable? The frontage could not have been saved and just the pool hall removed etc. Could not all the money used on the smaller baths been used to bring the old baths up to scratch?

Chill37 wrote:I do not feel safe in Rochdale.  I feel a whole lot safer in other Towns.  Not saying that Rochdale crime levels are more than other towns but its the sense of safety or the gangs that hang around etc

It's a mistake to think things can be improved by large rebuilding projects. Obviously infrastucture, roads, housing and so on needs renewing, but that often brings a sense of alienation with it.

It's services of all kinds that make the difference, in that case above, the police should be on the case, making the streets safe. Society has changed rapidly, and with those changes has come the disintegration of the systems that made up the 'fabric' of society.  

Although I don't comment much as I now work and live in Spain and don't think its my place to give an opinion. But, I was born and brought up in Rochdale and very proud to say where I come from. From my last visit, the new council offices make the Black Box look good, the Metrolink could have been replaced with a free bus service from the centre to the train station. As a suggestion, why not turn the Black Box into Enterprise offices, where all Rochdale businesses who pay their rates get free office space to meet clients and promote business. Also turn the multi story car park into a market stall area? Just an idea and I've saved Rochdale £100m

Of course you cant build your way out of trouble.

yes infrastructure is a key part.  Rochdale doesnt even have a ring road - yet.  But when infrastruture is needed and is built, it needs to be done correctly.  Just look at the debarcle that is Issac Newton Way. People will remember my posts over on RO that Issac Newton Way is a speed way and drivers on there are clearly dyslexic when they choose to or ignore clearly marked road signs and race down and cut up people to get onto Shaw/Elizabethan Way, saving a second or two.  
The traffic issue in Newhey is an utter joke with HGVS charging down a narrow road and even bipping people(including me) to get past cars en route to J21 off the M62.  
But what is the traffic department of RMBC doing about this ?  

Yet more traffic lights etc.  This will create even more traffic jams and chaos.  It wont stop or hinder the traffic jams or the drivers that cant drive properly or the speeding on these roads.  I feel it needs looking at in the bigger picture.  Where do the HGVs come from?  Businesses in the area? Or using Newhey as a short cut.  Drastic solutions could be called for.  Weight limit putting on Jubilee Bends to force HGV's back up to A627m at Elk mill where the roads are wider.  But that may upset the houses at Shaw.  There's no clear winner or gain. But somethings needs to be done.  Very least speed enforcement as there are clear signs at 20mph.  But even visually cars/hgvs etc are doing more than this. So for the minroity of some idiots the majority will have to suffer.

So Police , when they make much welcomed and publicised operations on law-breaking car drivers, they need to target Newhey/Issac Newton Way.  The costs will soon be re-couped. Just launch the operation without any fanfare and watch the results.

But all areas need to be looked at for any improvement to take place.

Indeed true chill 37. But with finite resources I am afraid many areas will have to await their turn.
I think the 'road' safety aspect is the concern of the MoT and it is from there that monies would be forthcoming and probably outside the local councils remit.
Start 'centre' and expand outwards - but 'start' you must. It's the type of project that will take decades and thus again is not in the remit of 'local' coucillors whose tenure would never extend thus. What is needed is a caucus of 'local' interested people with a goal in mind. Something that can be done as a 'spare-time-hobby' but which is on-going and something they can be personally proud of. It could be called (eg) The Assossiation for 'Rochdale's Tomorrow' meeting once a month with members taking on various parts of the 'visionary' aspects relating to the 'work'. Nothing will be done immediately for as they say 'all good things are worth waiting for. But the 'first' step needs to be taken by somebody. Inclusion and understanding being the first priority with everyone being open-minded. Do you fancy it then - or is it all rhetoric?

Atlas wrote:Indeed true chill 37. But with finite resources I am afraid many areas will have to await their turn.
I think the 'road' safety aspect is the concern of the MoT and it is from there that monies would be forthcoming and probably outside the local councils remit.
Start 'centre' and expand outwards - but 'start' you must. It's the type of project that will take decades and thus again is not in the remit of 'local' coucillors whose tenure would never extend thus. What is needed is a caucus of 'local' interested people with a goal in mind. Something that can be done as a 'spare-time-hobby' but which is on-going and something they can be personally proud of. It could be called (eg) The Assossiation for 'Rochdale's Tomorrow' meeting once a month with members taking on various parts of the 'visionary' aspects relating to the 'work'. Nothing will be done immediately for as they say 'all good things are worth waiting for. But the 'first' step needs to be taken by somebody. Inclusion and understanding being the first priority with everyone being open-minded.  Do you fancy it then - or is it all rhetoric?

So why doesnt the Council use some of its hundreds of thousands of pounds of profit from parking tickets to capture these idiots behind the wheel?    GMP is always in the news with their much welcomed crackdowns on car crime etc.  But not once have I read of one in Newhey/Sir Issac Newton way.  Maybe operations do take place and not reported on.  But it would be nice to see a story on Police cracking down on the morons or any sort of criminal activity for that matter in my area .  The whole operation would be paid for in a short few hours in my area  An umarked police car or two patrolling or parked up and you would soon see illegal speeding and colour blind drivers- or should I say drivers ignoring colours and signs.  Also the HGVs that treat Shaw Road as their own personal private roads.  Its a very serious accident waiting to happen.  

I agree with the caucus of local interested people.  But I re-call not so long ago there was a report on public being trained to use speed cameras to 'zap' speeders on Huddersfield Road but all that happened was the offended got a letter that in essence told them not be naughty again or they would get a fine.  So ergo they got away scot free for that offence. So utterly pointless.   Although I did get berated by an RO board member when I said it was the Polices job  and made reference to our taxes paying for them.  I am still awaiting the response who pays the Police if it is not Tax Payers. Funnily enough I never heard or read what happened ever to the Police by proxy Police force..  I do my fair share of campaigning as people who know me will testify to.  However barring me becoming a copper thats not much more I can do.

As for meeting, there's the area forums that take place every quarter is there not?  Maybe they should be held every month or every other month.  Probably logisitics and costs.  But hey hum.

What I am talking about (as regards the town long term) is the forming of a local high pressure group. It would no different to the 'pressures' brought about by our Victorian forebears whose own egoes and wealth brought about the prestigious buildings still in existence which whilst for their own use and self promelgation added immense value to what was once an industrial backwater and gave a pride of place. It wouldn't be easy - but it could/would be valuable to those who had the will to take such an organisation forward. In the long run - everyone would benefit.    

Atlas wrote:What I am talking about (as regards the town long term) is the forming of a local high pressure group. It would no different to the 'pressures' brought about by our Victorian forebears whose own egoes and wealth brought about the prestigious buildings still in existence which whilst for their own use and self promelgation added immense value to what was once an industrial backwater and gave a pride of place. It wouldn't be easy - but it could/would be valuable to those who had the will to take such an organisation forward. In the long run - everyone would benefit.    

So in essence this pressure group would have to report to the Council with thier ideas. To which the Council will probably and promptly dis-regard.

Although we do have the pressure group in Castleon at the moment. So maybe it could work elsewhere.

meanwhile, back in the Centre: -


Changes to development agreement for controversial £150m town centre retail development decided in secret  !

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/81870/changes-to-development-agreement-for-controversial-150m-town-centre-retail-development-decided-in-secret

I am not surprised in the slightest.  Nothing ever suprising me about this White Elephant project.  That will not even be done till 2023!!  Utter farce.

While people are doing more shopping on the internet, theme parks are still popular.

Dont worry.  its all the G20 fault.