Politically Correct ?

Political correctness is not all bad, it has had good effects, (which is a puzzle if it does not exist). It has permeated the fabricof life in the UK for quite some years. It is not really credible to say that it has not had an effect on everyday life and decision making in social work, policing and legal process. Political correctness is not just a UK problem, other countries suffer with it too, France has a bad attackof it. Here is the USA version, which I hope you will find illustrative and amusing, and notoffensive.

I think those illustrations sum up exactly the misuse of the word 'racist'.

I agree political correctness is a good thing, but not when it used as a tool to threaten or make others kow tow to demands.

I have heard "I can't get a job because I'm a Muslim" and, "I didn't get that promotion because of the colour of my skin".

I have witnessed senior management quaking in their shoes because so and so has threatened to take them to a tribunal for racism because they didn't get the promotion they applied for.

I have been told by a line manager that they have felt under pressure when sitting on a interview panel to appoint a BME candidate over a member of the indigenous population in order to 'tick boxes'.

THIS is where 'political correctness' falls down.

UP THE DALE wrote:What there is proof off is victims not being listened to and believed by social workers, police and others because of their backgrounds and or age and because of who the abusers were.

On this vexed question of whether the victims were believed. In evidence to Parliament, the police explain they believed the victims, and recommended prosecution to the crown prosecution service, but the C.P.S. did not believe the court system and jury would believe the victim.

Question: The obvious implication was that the officer thought this young female was simply making it all up, so why take it seriously?

Chief Constable Fahy: I think we do know from the papers that the recommendation that went to the Crown Prosecution Service was that there should have been a prosecution and that the victim was believed.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmselect/cmhaff/uc182-i/uc18201.htm

This is all incredibly detailed and contradictory to unravel. A question that arises is that if the police believe that a certain sort of violent crime against the person is going on, and they also know that the public are unaware of it, is there a duty on the police to warn the public? Or do we expect the police to say nothing until after there have been criminal convictions?

Previously sources have indicated that children were NOT listened to or believed by police and or social workers, after being referred to them by the crisis intervention team. So the police it seams are trying to reflect blame to the children on the one hand, and to the CPS on the other hand, or anyone apart from themselves. I think we might know better when the full reports are released, as at the moment there are conflicting reports.

As far as Paul Nuttall MEP of UKIP, he always blames "political correctness" or Europe when things go wrong, instead of blaming people just failing to do their jobs properly.

Employers do not have to employ BME candidates, they are meant to recruit the best candidate, and be prepared to prove why a BME candidate did not get a job or a promotion, same with female and disabled candidates. If an employer discriminates against someone because of of their background, sex etc they deserve to be prosecuted if it's proven. Not hard though to show you turned someone down because they were not the best person for the job, even if they are. There's still a lot more negative than positive discrimination by a long way. For example women are still on way less pay then men on average. I personally cannot remember seeing much pc at work in employment, job situations.

Dare say you are right about people not doing their jobs properly and trying to shift blame, UTD, but as you don't seem to know political correctness when you trip over it, and don't really believe it exists, how would you know whether it has contributed to attitudes?

Well you certainly have not shown what PC is, or shown how it was to blame for anything what happened in Rochdale or any other sexual exploitation case! And I have no idea why people have or had certain attitudes to the poor victims, same as I don't know why certain people have negative attitudes to certain sections of the population, especially the British Pakistani community-maybe you could answer that one.

I can't trip over something if it's not there!

We have had a bit of a conversation about political correctness, but it's not for me to explain what political correctness is, that's a matter of general knowledge. Aeroplanes fly, it happens every day, explaining why is a complicated matter.

As for why some groups of humans clash with others, if we understood that properly and knew how to change it, we might have a much more peaceful world.

[quote="cyfrifia"] Aeroplanes fly, it happens every day, explaining why is a complicated matter.

quote]
Now thats interesting! go on have a go I've always been fascinted by the hows and whys of aeroplanes

cyfrifia wrote:We have had a bit of a conversation about political correctness, but it's not for me to explain what political correctness is, that's a matter of general knowledge. Aeroplanes fly, it happens every day, explaining why is a complicated matter.

As for why some groups of humans clash with others, if we understood that properly and knew how to change it, we might have a much more peaceful world.

Why not explain what YOU think it is. If you believe in it then fair enough. PC is just people's belief, planes flying is a fact, with a scientific/engineering reasons behind them being able to fly, which I can't explain either.

I never asked you why some groups of humans clash, I wondered why some people have such a negative view of the British Pakistani community, and wondered if you could tell us, as you come over as someone who has a negative opinion of British Pakistani people.

[quote="UP THE DALE"]

cyfrifia wrote:

as you come over as someone who has a negative opinion of British Pakistani people.

Wow, there you go! Cyfrifia isnt allowed to mention anything without getting accused of having a 'negative opinion of British Pakistani people'
Is that an example of UTD being politically correct?

You might think that Charly.

Well I base my opinions of someone on what, they do and say. In their case it seams only negative things they say about British Pakistanis. They have said many things on BP people, so it's hardly a case them not being able to mention anything, in fact it's a rather daft thing to say they can't say anything about BP people without me accusing them of being negative towards BP people.

If anyone can point out anything other than negative things cyfrifia has said about BP people, then I will provide an apology. Other than that happening, I stand by what I said.

Well, I am rather taken aback, and not at all happy with what UTD says. With no good reason except his imagination. Still, it is a demonstration of the effect of too much political correctness on the mind, jumping to racist conclusions like that.

No, UTD, I don't "has a negative opinion of British Pakistani people." I do, as I have said think providing services for the mass immigration of recent years will be an ongoing cost to the UK rather than a benefit, as the politicians told us, but that's rather different to having a negative view of a particular nationality.

You might think on UTD, maybe you have got it wrong? By the way I think you were a bit out of order the other day, describing stupid people as "Neanderthals".

cyfrifia wrote:Well, I am rather taken aback, and not at all happy with what UTD says. With no good reason except his imagination. Still, it is a demonstration of the effect of too much political correctness on the mind, jumping to racist conclusions like that.

No, UTD, I don't "has a negative opinion of British Pakistani people." I do, as I have said think providing services for the mass immigration of recent years will be an ongoing cost to the UK rather than a benefit, as the politicians told us, but that's rather different to having a negative view of a particular nationality.

You might think on UTD, maybe you have got it wrong? By the way I think you were a bit out of order the other day, describing stupid people as "Neanderthals".

It's not my imagination at all. If you are not happy, complain to Admin. What I have said about you is not racist. Note it's you who has brought in the racism word.

When we talk about BP people-they are NOT immigrants, they were BORN here, hence the words British Pakistanis.

I don't think I have it wrong. You prove me wrong, I have the rest of your posts on this message board to back me up.

Yes calling people who are stupid, Neanderthals is wrong, unfair to Neanderthals. Also it is wrong to compare racists and bigots with Neanderthals, because it's unfair to Neanderthals.

No, they are not 'British Pakistanis', they are British - THIS false distinction is the cause of the progressive ghettoisation of parts of the town.

Yes you are right John, though in many cases that's what they describe themselves as. People of Pakistani heritage might be better description. Many British people call themselves Irish, as in that's their heritage. We are all of African heritage or descendants.

UP THE DALE wrote:I don't think I have it wrong. You prove me wrong

Once you have a bee in your bonnet, it does not go, so that would be a wasted effort. All I can do really is leave you to your views UTD. As for Pakistanis or British Pakistanis, they are quite a variable group of people, I don't have any particular views about them any more then any other nationality. I guess living in Rochdale can make people over-emotive about 'ethnic community' issues or whatever the current politically correct phrase might be.
To be fair, I am not happy with the immigration we have had over the last few years, from everywhere. I can't see the point of it unless we, the UK, were in a position to make a success of it, but as it is, it seems to be mismanaged, haphazard and underfunded. Providing NHS, education, policing, housing and so on, to a good standard for an ever growing and complex population into the future looks like a problem we will find difficult to cope with quite soon and, pass on to future generations.

The reason it would be a wasted effort on your part is because it's true what I said.

I suppose some of us Rochdalians do get "emotive" when outsiders try to stir things up between different communities in the town, knowing they won't have to face the consequences of any problems they cause or make worse. There is problems in the town, but we don't need people making things worse than they are!

Just so you know, there's probably a majority of people with Asian sub continent heritage in the town who are born and bred Rochdalians, and quite frankly the vast majority are a credit to the town, who I have far more time for than the idiot outsiders I mentioned above, especially the BNP, EDL and NF etc.

I've tried to have a reasonable conversation with you UTD, but now you are annoying me. Have a think about it. You seem to be showing the symptoms of politically correct mind damage, making a problem because you imagine something.

If, as you seem to be hinting, you think I have anything to do with the BNP, EDL or similar, you couldn't be more off target, I don't have anything at all to do with anything like that.

If I did have a problem with any particular group of people, British Pakistanis or whatever, I wouldn't have a problem saying so. The problem on here is you, and how hostile and unreasonable you are.

I am ok with a vigorous debate, if it's sensible, but there's a limit to the extent of personal attack I will put up with before I ignore you, and you are close to that limit.

You trying to be reasonable, good one.

I have not hinted you have anything at all with any of those groups, paranoid is the word.

You are calling me hostile for merely questioning what you say, and YOU are calling me unreasonable?

That's ok with me.