Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  cyfrifia on Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:06 pm

What is it like for asylum seekers and refugees arriving in the UK, into a housing crisis, an NHS crisis and the way things are ? British weather, homeless sleeping in doorways, etc.

This asylum seeking lady says

“The children cry a lot and say ‘this can’t be the UK’. It is different. You imagine blue skies, green fields and flowers. But at least we have the house.”

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/inside-the-disgrace-of-yorkshire-s-asylum-seeker-postcode-lottery-1-8374658


The expected image of life in the UK must often be very different to the reality.

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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  Atlas on Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:30 pm

Of course it is. The perception propagated by the traffickers is considerably at variance with the realities, that's how they get so much willing custom. That idiotic German woman started all this crap and as far as I'm concerned she can sort it out. The Germans have always started things they couldn't finish and as a consequence everybody else suffers. It's time Europe learned to distrust them (and their money) and saw them for what they are. Why we British have always got to pull Europe's hot coals from the fire for them is beyond me? Take them back to the nearest UN refugee camps to their home countries and let them resettle back home - as and when they can.
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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  cyfrifia on Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:07 pm

People smuggling is brutal, inhumane and lucrative. How many corpses in the Mediterranean sea now? Many thousands. Crying or Very sad

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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  Atlas on Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:36 pm

Yes 15,000 by any calculation and it will carry on as long as the traffickers can get the cattle and charge them. I can't save the world. We can't save the world. The world itself can't save the world. There's a cost to everything and we shall just have to continue papering over the cracks in the knowledge that enough will survive to keep the species going - ain't that a fact.
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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  cyfrifia on Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:35 pm

Seems a negative cycle in that the profits from people smuggling probably go back into financing the various wars that are driving people from their lands.

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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  Atlas on Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:02 pm

You cannot come on here expecting me to rationalise the 'logic' of ' people traffickers' and the outcomes. It has no logic other than 'survival' followed by greed and tomorrow will have to take care of itself - just like today and how things are now. For logic you have to care. For many nobody has cared. Therefore - today is all that matters. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Wink
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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  cyfrifia on Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:10 pm

The collective intelligence of Europe hasn't really understood the migrant crisis and people smuggling that has landed on it, so, no, not really expecting you will be able to rationalise the logic of it.

It seems fairly obvious though, that criminal organisations benefit from 'smuggling' people, and it will be in their interests to create and maintain the conditions that motivate refugees, i.e. wars famine etc.

Yes, live for today, all being well, tomorrow will be today before you can say 'jack robinson'.

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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  Atlas on Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:57 pm

Wars are in the interests of a great many people across the globe. War means money. Very, very big money. Bigger than oil. Bigger than drugs. Governments such as the British and the American have kept their economies afloat on the backs of wars. Why would they stop them???? One man's meat is another man's poison. The vast majority of wars have been for economical reasons all throughout history. Power=money. And so none of what transpires is new or surprising. The people will fight for self-survival and that of their families. The Twisted Evil people will manipulate them for personal gain. And so the dance goes on. There is no such thing as a 'just' war. Murder is murder regardless of the 'excuse'. And so - keep safe. Be vigilant. Avoid confrontation - unless your life depends on it. And - Fair Fortune. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:42 am

Avoiding confrontation is a matter of judgement, depends how much out of your way you have to go to avoid it, and if it's mutually agreed avoidance. Sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand, if it's a nice day at the seaside.
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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  Atlas on Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:22 pm

IF you decide to draw lines in the sand then the worst thing you can do thereafter is allow the opposition to step over it without sanction. Once you have done that and been seen to have 'failed' in your 'main' objective the rest is pointless. Therefore - drawing lines is a very serious business and not to be taken lightly. A good General never gets to 'drawing lines'. Attack being the best form of defence. Dictators thrive on prevarication and line drawing knowing full well that the majority of people will seek 'a better way'. Putin knew that. Obama and the EU didn't. The upshot has been the West loses - - until the next time - which won't happen under Trump's watch - and Putin knows it. Which has to be a plus against all the perceived minuses.
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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  cyfrifia on Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:58 pm

That's why the British way is to draw lines in the sand on a sunny day at the seaside, between the tides.
How-ev-er, we note a change of po-litical mood in europe, usa, and so on, in reaction to the problems coming too close for comfort, with the massacres in europe etc. etc.

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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  Atlas on Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:28 pm

Massacres? You want to see massacres look no further than Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, and a hundred more. Most of which are barely mentioned or shown on most western media outlets. Massacres - we don't know the half of it. I'm just waiting for the 'real' massacres to take place on our western shores. Whole towns and cities. Unless of course our European neighbours 'get real' for a change and really put a 'bloc' on things. Do I hold my breath? Or suffocate?
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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  cyfrifia on Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:40 pm

Hence the change in po-litical mood. Try to breathe calm and regular.

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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

Post  Atlas on Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:38 pm

2017 will be a very 'interesting' world. I foresee massive changes by the end of the century. The biggest and most dangerous will be Africa. Either she will expand to embrace or expand to destroy and either way could be external or internal. Whatever - neither will be a good thing for the Western nations unless they entwine their collective interests for mutual relationships. - But as I won't be here. I worries me not. Rolling Eyes
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Re: Immigration: "No proper debate for many, many years"

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