14 year old girl shot in Pakistan.

Atlas wrote:It would appear that the news of this young girls misfortune has promoted mass protests throughout various parts of the Asian and Middle Eastern world - mainly by young girls themselves. Perhaps this particular Taliban religious philosophy, you know the one, if you don't do as we preach we shoot you, hasn't gone down too well after all. Perhaps a shot in the foot this time?

Altas: Political opportunism ... the story and demonstrations are allowed and strongly encouraged by the leaders of those countries. It serves to overtly demonstrate to the rest of the world their high 'value' of girls and females. There have been terrible horror stories of the treatment and status of girls-women in the Swat Valley and nearby regions that make this hideous shooting literally pale in comparison.

As for the Taliban, activists will say the shooting should be a wake-up call to those who advocate appeasement (with the Taliban,) but analysts will tell that there will be no seismic shift in a country that has sponsored radical Islam for decades.

What I fail to understand is why groups like the Taliban think that young girls like the one shot should not have an education?

What is their problem and what has it got to do with the Islamic Religion?

It does not say anywhere in thier religion about not giving a decent education to women. Unless anyone from the Islamic community can comment on this.

teamplayer2 wrote:What I fail to understand is why groups like the Taliban think that young girls like the one shot should not have an education?
What is their problem and what has it got to do with the Islamic Religion?
It does not say anywhere in thier religion about not giving a decent education to women. Unless anyone from the Islamic community can comment on this.

UTD

I don’t really think it suitable to use the forum to document the multifarious interpretations and applications of a religion that are taking place in another country.

The Taliban have never explored their behaviour toward women and wouldn't even understand the concept of misogyny.

They have their own interpretations of Islamic-Shari’a laws that include brutal beliefs about living in Purdah. It is not a long-embedded cultural ‘thing’ in its entirety and was taken to a new level of horror from 1996, in the name of right wing fundamental Islam. It is subhuman, horrendous, gender-based repression.

Wiki’s Taliban treatment of Women might give you just one view and there are very many. But you could be left with far more questions than answers, like: To what extent was the Taliban's rise to power and their various decrees an ultra conservative reaction to Soviet and American interference in Afghan society (as was the rise of the Maccabees in ancient Israel) ?.

It does seem the rise to power of the Taliban was as a result of many years of continuous warfare in and against Afghanistan. In a country of eternal warfare, reduced to anarchy and constant brutality, any organisation that could bring any semblance of social order was welcomed.

What is Taliban though? The thugs who call themselves Taliban now are simply the most ruthless surviving gang. Two girls were together, both shot and suffered similar injuries, I wonder what has happened to the other one.

[quote="Mojo Hill"]

teamplayer2 wrote:What I fail to understand is why groups like the Taliban think that young girls like the one shot should not have an education?
What is their problem and what has it got to do with the Islamic Religion?
It does not say anywhere in thier religion about not giving a decent education to women. Unless anyone from the Islamic community can comment on this.

UTD

I don’t really think it suitable to use the forum to document the multifarious interpretations and applications of a religion that are taking place in another country.

The Taliban have never explored their behaviour toward women and wouldn't even understand the concept of misogyny.

They have their own interpretations of Islamic-Shari’a laws that include brutal beliefs about living in Purdah. It is not a long-embedded cultural ‘thing’ in its entirety and was taken to a new level of horror from 1996, in the name of right wing fundamental Islam. It is subhuman, horrendous, gender-based repression.

Wiki’s Taliban treatment of Women might give you just one view and there are very many. But you could be left with far more questions than answers, like: To what extent was the Taliban's rise to power and their various decrees an ultra conservative reaction to Soviet and American interference in Afghan society (as was the rise of the Maccabees in ancient Israel) ?.
[/quote

I don't understand your first line, is it intended to be someone else your comments are directed towards? In order to understand though why the shooting took part, you have to understand what the Taliban and right wing Islam extremism is all about, so therefore it is right to talk about them.

What you say about the Taliban I agree with.

They were a creation of the USA, who provided the weapons and funded along with Bin Laden and co by Saudi Arabia, which is the most extreme Islamic state around, to fight against the Russians in Afghanistan.

cyfrifia wrote:It does seem the rise to power of the Taliban was as a result of many years of continuous warfare in and against Afghanistan. In a country of eternal warfare, reduced to anarchy and constant brutality, any organisation that could bring any semblance of social order was welcomed.

Social order is one thing - but when guised under terror and repression quite another - NDSAP Germany 1921 - 1945. It is easy to understand why ordinary peaceful people will grasp at straws to better their lot but there is always a price to pay for the 'jam today' brigade.

UDT - as for a 'creation of the USA' perhaps you would care to enlighten us on how the Taliban were inculcated by the Americans in their religious dogma and consequent barbaric behaviour? Arming and providing material assistance to ward off the Russians is one thing - the rest I suggest would be a leap too far for right minded people.

[quote="UP THE DALE"]

Mojo Hill wrote:

teamplayer2 wrote:What I fail to understand is why groups like the Taliban think that young girls like the one shot should not have an education?
What is their problem and what has it got to do with the Islamic Religion?
It does not say anywhere in thier religion about not giving a decent education to women. Unless anyone from the Islamic community can comment on this.

UTD

I don’t really think it suitable to use the forum to document the multifarious interpretations and applications of a religion that are taking place in another country.

The Taliban have never explored their behaviour toward women and wouldn't even understand the concept of misogyny.

They have their own interpretations of Islamic-Shari’a laws that include brutal beliefs about living in Purdah. It is not a long-embedded cultural ‘thing’ in its entirety and was taken to a new level of horror from 1996, in the name of right wing fundamental Islam. It is subhuman, horrendous, gender-based repression.

Wiki’s Taliban treatment of Women might give you just one view and there are very many. But you could be left with far more questions than answers, like: To what extent was the Taliban's rise to power and their various decrees an ultra conservative reaction to Soviet and American interference in Afghan society (as was the rise of the Maccabees in ancient Israel) ?.
[/quote

---------------------------
" UP THE DALE then wrote
I don't understand your first line, is it intended to be someone else your comments are directed towards? ....... .

Sorry about that slip UTD. Yes the comments I made above were in response to teamplayer2.

Malala seems to be 'stable' in hospital according to reports, and may make a fair recovery in time. Security is tight as the Taliban are still threatening to kill her. I would guess the particular group of Taliban targeting her are probably local to Pakistan, and happy enough that she is off their patch, so she should be safe in the UK.

cyfrifia wrote:Malala seems to be 'stable' in hospital according to reports, and may make a fair recovery in time. Security is tight as the Taliban are still threatening to kill her. I would guess the particular group of Taliban targeting her are probably local to Pakistan, and happy enough that she is off their patch, so she should be safe in the UK.

Can I just say terrorist attacks happen around the world regardless of where the terrorists organisation is based. There is nothing to stop them travelling to carry out their threat to killl this girl.

True, Chill, we would hope the UK Border Force will be keeping a close eye on travel from that region. There again, is the UK Border Force 'fit for purpose' ? Going by all accounts it's a shambles, so it will probably be down to the police or the army or both to guard the hospital ward, and long term as well. It's a high profile case now, so it would be a huge blow to the UK to have such a Taliban assassination here.

Unless the Taliban are looking for a publicity 'coup', which would be a very negative one, they probably have other people to shoot in the Swat Valley, and as long as Malala is well out of their way and not campaigning for girls education there, she should be safe enough here in the UK. But, yes, it's by no means a certainty.

Just heard on a news flash on a news channel that there are unconfirmed reports of people getting arrested trying to get to this poor girl.

And there are also sad but predictable people complaining about us treating foreigners whilst we have waiting lists of our own.

Seems the people trying to get to Malala in hospital may be just innocents who are concerned for her, but it's a bit gormless of them if they think they can just walk in through security. Security will have to be tight. The Taliban in Pakistan Swat valley area seem to be going bonkers at the media, trying to justify their actions with religious dictats and threatening to kill journalists and other people.

As for people complaining about treating foreigners, resentment has built up in recent years about the way the NHS hasn't checked whether patients really live in the UK or not, it has become a fiasco. However, to apply that anger to this particular case is misguided.

Anyway anyone who goes up to a 14 year old girl who has done know wrong and shoots her with a gun, and was in no position to fight back, is nothing but a useless COWARD.

The attack has caused a lot of feeling in Pakistan, with some calling for this branch of the Taliban to be dealt with by the military, others saying that to start a military type offensive against them would only lead to more violence.

Yes you are correct but what about the cowards who go round shooting young teenage girls because they want a free will to speak,think and be what they want to be with their own lives. What is their problem in the Taliban?

What is their problem?

The mountain Taliban have a warlike culture going back for centuries, they have their beliefs, which don't include education for women, and believe it their duty to subjugate or kill anyone who disagrees with them. A problem for those that don't share those views.

A lot of the trouble zones in the world, Iraq and Kuwait, Pakistan and India, places in Africa, Northern and Southern Ireland are 'made up' borders and countries created by British colonial powers as they 'prepared' occupied territories and colonies for independence. Because they are not 'natural' borders, problems are inherent. Pakistan was created in 1947, and includes regions and cultures that don't all fit easily with each other.

That's the background as I understand it, but it still doesn't make sense, shooting young girls is just barbaric and inhumane.

Seen in the news today a 15 year old girl was whipped 30 times for talking to another boy.

What a bunch of cowards would do this.

That sort of thing happens a lot in that part of the world. Looking at the news from Pakistan, Afghanistan and other countries, with names I get mixed up, the Taliban are operating across borders and more active than ever. The war against them doesn't seem to have made all that much difference really, depending who you believe. Troops are supposed to be pulling out of Afghanistan in a year or two, refugees are heading for Indonesia and Australia. It's all a long way away, we will see how it pans out, but yes, it's worrying to hear of the brutality.

How much the behavior of the Taliban is based on Islam is hard to say, Taliban means scholar, but whether their leaders might be open to discussion and debate on religious principles with other branches of Islam is a question. The recent destruction of ancient Sufi temples in Africa isn't very encouraging in that department.

There always seem to be wars, and the ones at the moment, like Syria, seem so very tragic for the civilians caught up in them.

cyfrifia wrote:What is their problem?

The mountain Taliban have a warlike culture going back for centuries, they have their beliefs, which don't include education for women, and believe it their duty to subjugate or kill anyone who disagrees with them. A problem for those that don't share those views.

A lot of the trouble zones in the world, Iraq and Kuwait, Pakistan and India, places in Africa, Northern and Southern Ireland are 'made up' borders and countries created by British colonial powers as they 'prepared' occupied territories and colonies for independence. Because they are not 'natural' borders, problems are inherent. Pakistan was created in 1947, and includes regions and cultures that don't all fit easily with each other.

That's the background as I understand it, but it still doesn't make sense, shooting young girls is just barbaric and inhumane.

Cyfrifia: To explain an overview of the histories in Afghanistan and its nearby countries would take the forum into a thundering big dissertation. You can’t simply précis, or start to begin to really understand Taliban developments, without good knowledge of history, tribal khans, lineage, feudal structures, warlords, Pashtun councils-jirga, the poppy industry, radical Deobandi interpretations of Islam, Wahabbiis, the mujahideen and etceteras.

As an aside, it's a long-term fact that regions and cultures internationally don't sit or fit 'easily' with each other.

Taliban adherents do not discuss nor debate with the 2 main branches of Islam, its many sub branches, nor consider the sheer number of Islamic sects (now over 150

The brutal repression of girls-women is not an exclusive Taliban trait, although their ways have known levels beyond human comprehension.


The responsibility to ensure shades of such subjugation do not transfer into British cultures may be a very useful prime consideration .....

3 young children from the same family murdered this week in Afghanistan. American drone attack. Barbarism from the Taliban and the US, cowards. Just as well the Taliban does not have the same kind of weaponry as the US.

Where do the Taliban get their weapons? They do attack military bases in Pakistan sometimes, raising fears that they are trying to get nuclear weapons or material, and they apparently do have some electronic gadgetry to divert drones, but mostly they seem to rely on conventional weaponry.

Iran is the most probable source as well as sympathetic entities in the Pakistani Intelligence Services. There are also numerous gun-running factions who ship arms across the continents from the disgruntled 'new' countries of the old Eastern Bloc. If you have the 'cash', getting arms isn't difficult. High tec stuff is much more difficult and very costly which is why they don't have their own drones but can afford the equipment to divert and bring them down if they can pick them up (fix on them) in the first place. Iran spends billions on fermenting disharmony for its own political ends. As do many other countries including the USA.

The news on Iran is that it's looking (superficially) a bit like Greece, with a financial crisis, escalating food prices and demonstrations going on. Seems that ordinary people in lots of countries are having a tough time.

So it is and so it has always been cyfrifia. Very little will change any of that whilst the greedy remain so and the needy remain so. As for Iran - perhaps she might have done better to 'talk' some sense instead of the inflammatory political rhetoric some of her fundamental adherents keep coming out with and agreed with the international community on opening up her nuclear facilities to scrutiny. Saying she doesn't intend to promote the making or use of nuclear weapons coupled with her governments rhetoric on 'eliminating Israel' doesn't lend itself to belief and only promotes deep suspicions. Sanctions are not making things very comfortable for the ordinary Iranian who only wants to bring up his family in a clean and decent way. The removal of the Iranian Royalty doesn't seem to have done that much good on balance. Maybe the next will be the removal of the Mullahs. Then what?