14 year old girl shot in Pakistan.

Re Iran. Their problems are as a result of sanctions, which as usual hit the ordinary people. There is only ONE nuclear power in that part of the middle east, that is Israel. But despite all sorts of criminal activities, have no sanctions put on them. Iran is years away from developing the weaponry grade uranium required to build nuclear bombs. Then they would have to be able to deliver it, no signs that they have the means. Sounds like Iraq all over again.

Also the words allegedly said by the Iranians about wiping Israel of the map are open to dispute, possibly been translated wrongly. There have been no PROVEN acts of aggression against Israel by Iran. There have been attacks by Israel on other countries including Iran, but of course the US are behind Israel so they can do no wrong, as far as being sanctioned by the international community. It is the violent Israeli state that is exporting death in the middle east, and is openly threatening war against Iran.

None of this distracts away from the fact that it is a rabid religious country, yet many Christians, Jews and other religions live in Iran, and it is a lot less strict than Saudi Arabia which is a total dictatorship along with Bahrain. But of course those countries are the US friends so they get away from having their daily acts of brutality reported on in the west.

One final question, can anyone tell us when the last time a proven act of aggression by Iran has been carried out on another country, or outside it's borders?

Iran sponsors Hes Bullah in Lebanon - not so much terrorism,more a full blooded insurgency.

That said, Iran would have been much better managed by sane diplomacy, but the Americans don't do sane and can't stomach diplomacy because it's French.

Yes Hezbollah are indeed funded, armed and trained by the Iranians, and Syria as well. Of course they have democratically elected representatives in Lebanon's parliament, but they also have a military wing. Lets not forget that the Lebanese had to rise up to try to defeat occupying forces. When your country is occupied or invaded one is never wrong to fight back if you believe the occupiers and or invaders should not be there. Unfortunately when occupied or invaded countries fight back they sometimes end up targeting innocent people

As far as the middle East is concerned, what ever Israel wants to happen normally gets full support from the US, or at least no action from them, even if that is fascist like behaviour of murder, terrorism land grabs etc.

cyfrifia wrote:Where do the Taliban get their weapons? They do attack military bases in Pakistan sometimes, raising fears that they are trying to get nuclear weapons or material, and they apparently do have some electronic gadgetry to divert drones, but mostly they seem to rely on conventional weaponry.

Weapons for the Taliban in Afghanistan will probably have a few sources of supply. Majority will have come from the Russians when they invaded Afghanistan back in 1979. Or possibly some USA weapons when they were known as the Mujahideen when the Carter Administration adopted the policey that no outside force could control the Persian Gulf. Although my knowledge is a bit cloudy on that era.

UP THE DALE wrote:Re Iran. Their problems are as a result of sanctions, which as usual hit the ordinary people. There is only ONE nuclear power in that part of the middle east, that is Israel. But despite all sorts of criminal activities, have no sanctions put on them. Iran is years away from developing the weaponry grade uranium required to build nuclear bombs. Then they would have to be able to deliver it, no signs that they have the means. Sounds like Iraq all over again.

Also the words allegedly said by the Iranians about wiping Israel of the map are open to dispute, possibly been translated wrongly. There have been no PROVEN acts of aggression against Israel by Iran. There have been attacks by Israel on other countries including Iran, but of course the US are behind Israel so they can do no wrong, as far as being sanctioned by the international community. It is the violent Israeli state that is exporting death in the middle east, and is openly threatening war against Iran.

None of this distracts away from the fact that it is a rabid religious country, yet many Christians, Jews and other religions live in Iran, and it is a lot less strict than Saudi Arabia which is a total dictatorship along with Bahrain. But of course those countries are the US friends so they get away from having their daily acts of brutality reported on in the west.

One final question, can anyone tell us when the last time a proven act of aggression by Iran has been carried out on another country, or outside it's borders?

True theres no PROVEN physical attack on another country, but didn't they take hostage some Royal Marines the other year when the Royal Marines 'entered' Iranian waters? Moving on , the Iran President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is very much on record on his spoken views on the Israel state and how it needs to be removed from the face of the global map. Yes Iran is a bit of having a Nuclear device but this situation is a world away from the lies behind the Iraq WMD invasion. Iran is/does have the centifurges in its posssion . It does have Nuclear reactors. Im in two minds about its ambitions. I personally think it is working towards a Nuclear Bomb at all costs. I shudder to think what would happen. Maybe it will use them against a neighbour or maybe it wont and just have it as threat.

But then again I think/suspect Israel may be planning a first strike against Iran just as it did when it took out the Iraqi reactor in 1981 as Israel deemed it a risk to themselves.

What really worries me is what a new President of the USA may do. Mr Romney has been critical in the debates of President Obama actions towards Iran etc. I suspect if Mr Romney got in he may take a lot more physical action to prevent President Ahmadinejad getting his hands on a Nuke.

The Taliban that shot Malala are now threatening to shoot another teenage girl in Pakistan. Seems they have a 'kill list' of teenage girls to kill.

Meanwhile teenage and indeed younger children are losing their lives due to UK and US unmanned drones, but that does not seam to matter to many people. The maiming and murder of innocent people is out of order no matter who is doing it, and sadly "our side" are doing more than the terrible Taliban.

The Gaurdian "The British government's support for US drone operations over Pakistan may involve acts of assisting murder or even war crimes, the high court heard on Tuesday."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/23/uk-support-us-drones-pakistan-war-crime?newsfeed=true

Absolutely. This government is carrying on in participating in war crimes, but most people don't give a damn, because it's kids abroad getting blown up, and not ours. No better, no worse than the Taliban and other murdering scum, including the biggest killers of foreigners of all-the Israeli government.

I have only one reply to you UDT. "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you. But do it first." And when that fails (as it would). "Do onto others as they would do onto you. But do it first." I remember well the bleatings of those who would 'ignore' the realities of the 1930s and how it would all be well if only we sat around a table and talked over our differences and tried to understand each other. When will you realise that some people DON'T WANT to talk and listen. All they want is POWER (which brings money and riches). The people that 'control' don't give a damn about land and populations. They're expendable if needs be. And whatever it takes to bring about that power - by lies usually - suits their ends and needs. As one of the 'people' I want to be alongside those who don't bleat and leave everything until its too late. Make sure your ground and praise the lord - but keep passing the ammunition.

UP THE DALE wrote:Absolutely. This government is carrying on in participating in war crimes, but most people don't give a damn, because it's kids abroad getting blown up, and not ours. No better, no worse than the Taliban and other murdering scum, including the biggest killers of foreigners of all-the Israeli government.

Who are most people? I can tell you here and now that I do give a damn about kids getting blown up by ANYONE, be it an innocent 14 year old girl getting shot in the head at point blank range, to a child getting killed via a missile fired from a Drone from any nation. All the way through to a child being killed by a terrorist group such as Hamas or the IRA - in the case of the Warrington Bombings. I think I am safe to say that all the people on this board feel the same that the attack on the innocent girl has touched them and they do give a damn and if you stopped Joe Public on the streets they would say the same. That they do give a damn.

On the subject of Drones. Israel shot down a Drone the other day, one of many recently, and Hamas have claimed that they were responsible for the Drone.

It seems to me you really have a bee in your bonnet about Israel. Are you implying that Israel goes around with impuntity killing all foreigners at such a huge scale to make them the 'biggest killers of all' as per your statement. Sorry to ask but can you provide an exhasutive list to back up your claims that Israel is the biggest killer of all foreigners.

As for war crimes, I suspect, no I FEEL, that Tony Blair is one of the biggest war criminals of modern times, along with George Bush Jnr, with the illegal war on WMD based on lies that cost us many brave men and women service personnal in Iraq. They should be up in the Hague with charges for crimes against humanity.

Well if most people give a damn they don't show it. When the Taliban shot the girls there was outpouring of anger from some people in this country, and rightly so, but maybe because it's a regular occurrence there is not the same anger/upset shown, UNLESS of course they don't know about the children's deaths. And that id the main problem. These deaths by drones are not reported usually by the mainstream media.

Regarding Israel, they are the ones who are gradually invading other lands, and suppressing more and more people killing at times. Other countries like Syria have had more internal deaths, but Israel export more death than the other countries around that area. They still illegally occupy many areas.

1987 to 2011. Palestinian deaths =7978, of which 1620 were children, according to B'tselem an Israeli human rights group based in Israel, of which 98% happened in Palestine, 1503 (142) Israeli civilian deaths according to Israeli Ministry of foreign affairs, majority of which occurred in Palestine.. These are just some figures, I stand by my original statement that Israel is responsible for more deaths of foreigners in the region than other countries, unless someone can provide figures proving otherwise, in which case I will apologise and take my words back.

I completely agree with you regarding Blair, and Bush, and have expressed that opinion many times on here and elsewhere.

What other soveriegn lands have Israel invaded. I only know of Gaza and the disputed Golan Heights. But didn't those areas stem from the Yom Kippur war? Where Syria and Egypt invaded Israel via the Suez Canal.

Syria has, regretably, more internal deaths but I feel that is a on a different scale to the issues in Israel. Although I do question why the UN and Global community has failed to act as swiftly with Syria as it did when Libya had their issues.

They have invaded parts of Lebanon and Syria. Not sure, if they invaded Egypt as well. The have also committed terrorist attacks in Iraq, Iran and possibly other countries that I can't remember.

I have already acknowledged that in Syria's internal civil war many thousands have died. I believe it was wrong that Libya was invaded, and don't believe Syria should be either. It is not for outside countries to determine who should take power in sovereign countries. However, I do hope that the opposition can overthrow the regime in Syria, without the US, UK, Russia and other countries sticking their noses into the situation and making things even worse. Interesting to note that Libya's former state owned oil industry is now in private hands, and no longer do the people get a sizeable dividend from those oil receipts like they did, under the Ghadafi regime.

And we all live happily ever after yes UDT? Oh that other countries and rulers and governments had your laudable wishes and opinions. Have you ever thought of participating in the real world?
I could name at least twenty countries around the globe whose leaders/governments have incursions across their own borders for reasons that satisfy their 'own' demands and Israel is certainly one of them. All are engaged in killing other people in one way or another. Might I suggest you take care of your own country's safety and security FIRST before lamenting and beefing about the stupidity (as you call it) of others. It's a jungle out there. Show one inkling of appeasement or weakness and they will take you down. Why? Because that is this 'present' human condition. Give it another 1,000 years and maybe, just maybe, things might be a little different.

UP THE DALE wrote:They have invaded parts of Lebanon and Syria. Not sure, if they invaded Egypt as well. The have also committed terrorist attacks in Iraq, Iran and possibly other countries that I can't remember.

I have already acknowledged that in Syria's internal civil war many thousands have died. I believe it was wrong that Libya was invaded, and don't believe Syria should be either. It is not for outside countries to determine who should take power in sovereign countries. However, I do hope that the opposition can overthrow the regime in Syria, without the US, UK, Russia and other countries sticking their noses into the situation and making things even worse. Interesting to note that Libya's former state owned oil industry is now in private hands, and no longer do the people get a sizeable dividend from those oil receipts like they did, under the Ghadafi regime.

I dont think the Allies invaded Libya more over provided air support for the rebels fighting Colonel Ghadafi. So it wasnt a full scale invasion as seen in Iraq etc. Alhough I do suspect there may have been some 'special forces' on the ground assisting the uprising. As for the terrorist atacks depends how you look at it really. The main attack that I can recall in Iraq was against the Nuclear Power Plant which Ive referenced previously.

As for oil dividends. Did Colonel Ghadafi ever distribute the dividends when he was in power to the people of Libya. Possibly. But only to his inner circle I suspect.

If not a direct dividend to every citizen he used it to provide a massive welfare state to the people of Libya. Free education,
Free health care,
Free farmland a house and seeds,
Free energy bills,
$50,000 housing money for just married couples,
Interest free loans,
Debt free country,
Government pays half for your car,
Near free gasoline prices
etc.

Have you ever heard of the world largest Irrigation project? Gaddafi lunched world largest irrigation project to supply pure water to the people of libya for upcoming years. This project can be called as world's 8th wonder. This project costs billions of dollars.

Before the Nato backed take over, Libya was debt free, had the highest standard of living in the whole of Africa, had increased literacy levels to at least 90%, and wait for it, the UN human rights website said there was no sign of human rights abuses in Libya.

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/bodies/hrcouncil/docs/16session/A-HRC-16-15.pdf

Libya was far from perfect, but compared to many, the people of Libya had a better standard of living.

The rebels would not have won without Nato's bombs and military intervention, into what was a civil war. One day this government of Libya will turn round on the west, but in the mean time the west is benefiting from cash loans to Libya, rebuilding contracts, better oil prices, etc.

Anyway back to the subject, good to see that Malala is doing very well indeed and she has seen her Dad. She is looking forward to going back to school.