Low-budget Zombie Apocalypse.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/77716/rochdales-not-got-talent

Rochdale Online reports about a university study that concludes Rochdale and it's population is pretty much a basket case. Is there any convincing evidence to the contrary that has been overlooked?

Would it be good to accept the criticism as reality and get to grips with what can be done, as someone suggested?

cyfrifia wrote:Would it be good to accept the criticism as reality and get to grips with what can be done, as someone suggested?

Yes!

The council, and its patsys, are very adept at closing down criticism by accusing those criticising of being 'negative', this ensures bad decisions and waste of council tax payers money goes unchallenged and the gravy train rides on. It is high time this was highlighted and the mess created in Rochdale in recent years, and even decades, by the council, and those responsible for the poor decision making were properly held to account.

If you doubt the level of 'positive' spin that we are constantly fed then I invite you to read these two reports and consider how both could come to such very different conclusions:

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/1/business-news/77631/rochdales-the-place-to-be-for-business

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/77716/rochdales-not-got-talent

After taking a walk around the Cook Street and Gower street area yesterday I have to agree.

I won't go into my findings (we've all been there before) apart from recording my surprise at finding a large number of hens strutting around the streets among the rubbish (now that's new) but suffice to say, these streets are ghettos! If people haven't got the intellect to know how to dispose of their rubbish properly (countless recycling bins with yellow tickets that the refuse men have refused to take) - the view I have sums up total ignorance.

There seems to be little hope for this town.

Chicken and egg.

Whether the labour pools is talented is irrelevant, there is little industry to employ them and talented people commute. for example, I have not worked in Rochdale County Borough for well over thirty years, and have not worked in Greater Manchester for fifteen (and that only for one year as an accident).

Poppyanna555 wrote:There seems to be little hope for this town.

A grim but apparently realistic assesment of the situation. Too many people without useful qualifications.

From Simon Danczuk's page. As always, undated, impossible to know if it's relevant or obsolete. It says -

http://www.simondanczuk.com/fair-future-real-help-for-rochdale-residents

"people in the Rochdale can now get in touch with impartial, expert advisers who can help them manage the worries they face as well as plan for the future with confidence. For impartial money guidance Rochdale residents can visit www.moneymadeclear.fsa.gov.uk"

Which, on my computer, at the moment at least, leads to a dead link. If the town is going down, people will need to sort out what finances they have, so as not to be economically trapped. Suitable training to apply for jobs, where there are jobs, and help moving would seem to be the way forward?

There is a lot of talent in Rochdale. The ones with the real talent see the light and get out of Rochdale where their talent is better used, or driven away from Rochdale because real talent is not appreciated in this town.

So you cannot blame those with real talent moving away. There is a lot who do stay but try and make the best of it.

I know a lot of very talented people. However most of them can't turn a living from what they're doing(*) so they've ended up doing work that's (often) unrelated to what their passions are just to keep a roof over their heads and pursue their creative endeavours as a 'sideline'. The only people I've know who have made a living from their talents are those who've left Rochdale (and in some cases the country).

* - at least not without going for a very mainstream, lowest-common-denominator version of what they do - which is anathema to most creative folk.

And apologies for all the bracketry...

teamplayer2 wrote:There is a lot of talent in Rochdale. The ones with the real talent see the light and get out of Rochdale where their talent is better used, or driven away from Rochdale because real talent is not appreciated in this town.

So you cannot blame those with real talent moving away. There is a lot who do stay but try and make the best of it.

Course they is a lot of talent in Rochdale. But Rochdale name now seems to be the bench mark/buzz word for anything bad.

The bit about ‘high-speed connectivity’ is a bit puzzling to me. Is it a lack of high speed internet provision at the exchanges or is it company’s not using local providers. Any comment J?

From the report, connectivity was measured by:

Broadband speed (Average sync speed (Mbit/s))
Broadband uptake (Percentage not receiving 2Mbit/s)
Source:
OFCOM (2012)

Rochdale broadband speed
6.9 (Average in UK is 8.0)
Broadband speed is slower on average in Rochdale. This is a proxy for connectivity, with less well connected towns/cities being less likely to enjoy favourable business conditions.

Rochdale share of low broadband speed
18.5% (Average in UK is 12.3%)
This is a proxy for accessibility. High levels of poor internet connectivity amongst consumers make it difficult for businesses to communicate effectively with their customer base.

The idea people need to move away from Rochdale to make a living from the talent and abilities they have must, in itself, cause a negative cycle of long term decline .

In the past, such negative cycles resolved by de-population, but that seems unlikely now?

There is a lot of talent in the Borough of Rochdale coupled with ambition.

What the Borough lacks is the ability to grow, nurture and harvest this talent. There is no encouragement of individualism or creativity. No enthusiasm for anything outside of a square box. As a result the talent goes elsewhere.

An example is the way RMBC and others recruit staff and the way they define positions. They believe they know exactly what they want and applicants have to fit accordingly. They want square pegs for square holes so that is what they receive and why they only attract and retain the same kind of thinking and delivery of services etc. When they consult or look to "privatise services" they choose consultants and businesses who think and deliver along the same lines as themselves. As a result we never see any real change.

Instead of closing us in as a "square" Borough there needs to be a move to open up and welcome in from the cold all the other shapes out there.

Spartacus wrote:There is a lot of talent in the Borough of Rochdale coupled with ambition.

That may be so, although, in the circumstances, it is not very apparent. Most people have more than a spark of talent within them.

RMBC comes in for a lot of criticism, and seems to have damaged the town one way and the other over time, but realistically, how central is the role and nature of the council to the talent, intelligence and motivation of the population?

cyfrifia wrote:

Spartacus wrote:There is a lot of talent in the Borough of Rochdale coupled with ambition.

That may be so, although, in the circumstances, it is not very apparent. Most people have more than a spark of talent within them.

RMBC comes in for a lot of criticism, and seems to have damaged the town one way and the other over time, but realistically, how central is the role and nature of the council to the talent, intelligence and motivation of the population?

What has broadband speed got to do with it then?

There's no evil fairy floating over the Borough casting spells on our residents and cursing them with less natural aptitude or skills than the rest of the country. There is talent here the same as it is elsewhere but it needs to be developed with the right conditions. If the conditions are right in the Borough the talent can flourish if not then most of it will die before it has a chance or leaves as soon as it gets the chance.

Spartacus wrote: If the conditions are right in the Borough the talent can flourish if not then most of it will die before it has a chance or leaves as soon as it gets the chance.

It seems a lot to expect from RMBC with it's poor track record and reputation, in it's weakened and underfunded condition, to make the changes to improve those sort of conditions. How could it be done?

Perhaps they could start by publishing an information leaflet saying:

"There is no evil fairy floating over the Borough casting spells on our residents and cursing them with less natural aptitude or skills than the rest of the country."

Which might be cost effective and reassuring to some residents.

cyfrifia wrote:

Spartacus wrote: If the conditions are right in the Borough the talent can flourish if not then most of it will die before it has a chance or leaves as soon as it gets the chance.

It seems a lot to expect from RMBC with it's poor track record and reputation, in it's weakened and underfunded condition, to make the changes to improve those sort of conditions. How could it be done?

Perhaps they could start by publishing an information leaflet saying:

"There is no evil fairy floating over the Borough casting spells on our residents and cursing them with less natural aptitude or skills than the rest of the country."

Which might be cost effective and reassuring to some residents.

Btw, when a have a dig at RMBC I'm not getting at all the hardworking, dedicated people who also work there.

I used to get the impression if you worked hard in the council and never took sick leave, some of the employees thought you were rather odd.

Yes, some organizations used to reward staff that did not take any sick leave during the year, but that does not seem to attract any merit or recognition any more.


I am puzzled by the broadband comment. Rochdale seems to have a reasonable amount of cabled areas, plus Zen which continues to win awards and acclaim.

Surely the biggest issue with Rochdale losing talent is the brain drain that occurs every year at secondary school entrance level. For over 40 years Rochdale has not had any schools that could compete academically with the grammar schools of Bury, Oldham, Manchester and Rawtenstall, and more recently with the church schools of Oldham.
For sure there are many exceptions who to their credit have achieved great things within in the Rochdale education system, but a considerable proportion of the best -performing children leave the borough every year, and it difficult to see how that will ever change. I know of a senior Rochdale council employee and Rochdale resident whose children were educated in Oldham, Bury and Rawtenstall - doing the best for each of their children meant them not being educated in Rochdale beyond primary level. The ties with Rochdale are are reduced, and those families often move away too.

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/78/opinion/77811/rochdale-a-town-of-all-the-talents

Says it all really.

Another great article by that Hardcastle fellow.

Could the fatherly advice to the growing child to escape from Rochdale in any direction become a local tradition? A wisdom passed down the generations.

"Do not think of me, I may be trapped here and too old to move, but you must go, my son, flee, go forth and find a life."

Children have been leaving this part of Wales for generations. It comes down to opportunity of work and salaries. In the 30 odd years I have been here nothing has changed in that direction for although the population expands the available work opportunities only keeps pace regardless of the fact that the situation here has been known since Adam was a lad. Large sections of the Welsh population are spread across the globe and like the Irish number considerably more than there English counterparts in that respect. Rochdales youth will over time follow this trend if insufficient attention is not paid to jobs and salaries.

Hopefully young people will eventually find a rewarding role in society, or at least a way to survive economically, but in the circumstances, that may not, at least for the moment, be a job. Youth unemployment is high almost everywhere. At least some young people may have to accept that and plan accordingly. There can be other reasons apart from jobs for young people to want to be in Rochdale, if there are things like training, education, social life, thriving music, sport or arts, maybe the possibility of buying a house fairly cheaply and working on it.