Re: Turnaround Specialist for town centre.

Atlas Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:12 am

Now whose being childish. Wink

Atlas Wed Aug 07, 2013 1:20 am

It would appear from proposals so far gleaned that this development is only in the 'concept' stage - thus an idea. To further negotiations there has to be an application for outline planning. If you 'really' wish to 'object' and further stop what is considered by many to be an expensive 'white elephant' the most effective form of action would be to 'object' to the planning in the first place and if necessary take it to 'appeal' and again onward to London, I forget which Ministry but someone will know. That will cause enough panic to get the proper attention you will need to stop it.

Chill37 Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:15 am

Atlas wrote:It would appear from proposals so far gleaned that this development is only in the 'concept' stage - thus an idea. To further negotiations there has to be an application for outline planning. If you 'really' wish to 'object' and further stop what is considered by many to be an expensive 'white elephant' the most effective form of action would be to 'object' to the planning in the first place and if necessary take it to 'appeal' and again onward to London, I forget which Ministry but someone will know. That will cause enough panic to get the proper attention you will need to stop it.

Well it does certainly put paid to comments on RO which say:

"Councillor Peter Williams, portfolio holder for economic development and customer services, told the full council meeting held on 18 July: “I can assure members that I believe contracts are in a position to be signed in the very near future. By that I mean it is a matter of days, not weeks.”

OR

"With criticism being levelled at Genr8 for having struggled to get retailers to sign up to the project, Councillor Farooq Ahmed, who holds the Rochdale Borough Council finance portfolio, claimed in November 2012 that ‘big name retailers’ had signed up to move into the development, however, when formally challenged by Councillor Dale Mulgrew to identify the ‘big name’ retailers he was unable to do so, and almost a year on no retailers have been named"

Oh deary me/. Looks like they have been caught with their hands in the Coookie/PR jar.

Atlas Thu Aug 08, 2013 1:05 am

It's not unusual for 'developers' to make 'proposals' together with 'feasibility studies' and add a dash of 'potentials' in order to 'latch-on' to development monies whether they be private or public in order to 'create' future work for themselves and their companies. I well remember taking on various similar 'potential' schemes in the 70's (one of which was the Kingsway Industrial Estate which actually came to fruition in the late 90s) - but all require planning permission and all can be defeated providing sufficient good reasons for objecting are given. If it can be proven that the development will be unsustainable and thus a financial burden on the ratepayers, a blot on the landscape or not in keeping with the areas present usage and you can convince enough people by their lodging of objections ( petitions are also useful here) then it is possible to override the councils or the developers wishes through democratic means such as this. If your argument is loud enough and sound enough it has great potential. Such is the way of things - Smile

Chill37 Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:39 am

Its even more unusual when leading Cllrs make claims such as those I ve quoted from RO? !

So it wil take 12 years to build a new (unwanted I hasten to add) Pound Shopping Centre.

Lets have a look around to see what was built even quicker.

The centre of Manchester was re-built a whole lot quicker than Rochdale after the bomb went off. If RMBC been in charge they still would be back filling the bomb crater!

Bury they put up the Rock in less than 3 years.

Oldham their regeneration is well in advance stages. They are now starting to build their new family oriented areas, the new cinemas and entertainment complex. New open area are being built new training areas being built to promote employment.

Now good old poor old Rochdale. New area not even signed off! But yet they (RMBC) managed to put up a new £50m office block from concept to the turning on off the £15k light fitting in about 2 or so years.. mmmmm priorites? Despite claims from ex Cllrs about the benifits etc, you cant shop in there you cant spend a WHOLE day out in there. Can you really imagine familes saying"Hey kids lets go to 50 Smith Street for a day out!!"

Oh yes Metrolink - all but finished but still six months till its opened! Why? I have yet to see the Cllrs send for the leader of MPT - Mr Peter Cushing - to ask as to why its will take six months to open. Yes driver training needs to take place but can anyone tel me the lenght of the programme? Baring in mind testing is taking place now. Where did the spare drivers come from?

As for Kingsway - thats an utter white elephant. The original concept never taken to task. As ive said before Im am 99% certain the original model/palns di not have an housing estate on it,. Which , by the way, the owners of the white elephant used to promote the park as being in the top ten of investment. or some other spin filled metaphor riddled statement spouted very recently.

So yes not unusual at all.

So

Atlas Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:20 am

So don't let them do it. Stop them. Use the law and reasoned argument. At the first sniff of a 'planning application' create holy-hell. A 'march' - television and a petition. Get your objections in. Use the argument that only competent people can do the job properly not idiots who continually ignore expert advice.

Chill37 Sat Aug 10, 2013 11:13 am

Well for evidence of planning applications.

Watch the now infamous clip on democracy within the Planning Department meetings not so long ago.

Just this week we had this Pound Shop Centre being held in secret with no reporting allowed of the outcome.

Atlas Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:58 am

ALL. I REPEAT - 'ALL' PLANNING APPLICATIONS HAVE TO BE ANNOUNCED IN THE LOCAL PAPER. IT'S THE LAW.
In order that people may view them and object or comment if they wish.
The application cannot be a 'secret'. Surprised

Chill37 Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:06 pm

Atlas wrote:ALL. I REPEAT - 'ALL' PLANNING APPLICATIONS HAVE TO BE ANNOUNCED IN THE LOCAL PAPER. IT'S THE LAW.
In order that people may view them and object or comment if they wish.
The application cannot be a 'secret'.

Yes they do have to be in the paper. It's what happens after that I am referring too.

Such as how the plans are discussed and passed.

As I said there has been some very questionable judgements as per my post.

Atlas Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:45 am

Ageed. That is why you have to take the 'wrong' decision to appeal. If you are wronged a second time then you have recourse to the powers that be at the Ministry by launching another appeal against that decision. You are not expected to take that step because few do - it is however the most effective way of getting your objections noticed and looked at properly. I know. I've done it. Against Rochdale's Planning Department - and WON. Which isn't to say that you will. You will need friends with you and some money raised for the purpose. Be ready to strike as late objections cannot be taken into consideration. Make sure your objection is registered and delivered properly. Who dare wins. Wink

Chill37 Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:11 am

Nice result when you complaiined and won. But its a begger when you have to appeal against a descision when the basic democratic process is run roughshod over in the way it was done on the TV programme.

Poppyanna555 Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:00 pm

Well said Chill, I totally agree with your sentiments. Sad

Atlas Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:47 am

Well you don't expect the 'opposition' to play pat-a-cake do you: Shocked

The name of the game is to win - however down and dirty you have to go. Fire with fire and all that. Jeez - - - - Shocked

Chill37 Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:30 am

Atlas wrote:Well you don't expect the 'opposition' to play pat-a-cake do you: The name of the game is to win - however down and dirty you have to go. Fire with fire and all that. Jeez - - - -

Well to be fair, yes when you put in a planning application you expect questioning or disagreement. The last thing you expect is the very Cllrs tasked with the planning application panel overiding democracy and running roughshod in the first place!

cyfrifia Tue Aug 13, 2013 10:38 am

Fighting fire with fire, down and dirty, over-riding democracy and running roughshod!

Now, which to go in for? Being a gangster or taking an interest in planning applications?

Poppyanna555 Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:33 pm

I believe that Thorntons chocolatiers are pulling out of the town centre now... Sad

Chill37 Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:29 pm

Poppyanna555 wrote:I believe that Thorntons chocolatiers are pulling out of the town centre now...

Im not surprised. Still another pound shop on its way.

Rejoice

teamplayer2 Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:58 pm

All the major players will be out soon.

Atlas Wed Aug 14, 2013 12:43 am

cyfrifia wrote:Fighting fire with fire, down and dirty, over-riding democracy and running roughshod!

Now, which to go in for? Being a gangster or taking an interest in planning applications?

What makes you think you are not dealing with 'gangsters'? A rose by any other name t'would be ---

Guest Sat Aug 17, 2013 10:35 pm

Poppyanna555 wrote:I believe that Thorntons chocolatiers are pulling out of the town centre now...

Yes that’s confirmed: Greenwoods and Thornton's on Yorkshire Street soon set to close: -

url=http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/82047/greenwoods-and-thorntons-closing-down

Guest Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:17 pm

Chill37 wrote:
Atlas wrote:Well you don't expect the 'opposition' to play pat-a-cake do you: The name of the game is to win - however down and dirty you have to go. Fire with fire and all that. Jeez - - - -
Well to be fair, yes when you put in a planning application you expect questioning or disagreement. The last thing you expect is the very Cllrs tasked with the planning application panel overiding democracy and running roughshod in the first place!

If you're looking at fairness, it's probably worth remembering that local planning applications don't inevitably go to planning committees.

Delegated Powers are given in the United Kingdom to Local Planning Authority planning officers to determine Planning applications without the requirement for the application to be put before a Planning Committee

I think the original idea was to delegate inconsequential or very minor applications, but incidents suggest otherwise, for example, former RMB council property and grounds sold off for a noteworthy change of use.. then a retrospective application 'quietly' submitted almost a year later, after the differences have become established, now due for a speedy decision - under delegated powers. Mad

Atlas Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:34 am

That doesn't alter the fact that 'all' planning applications have 'by law' to be published for public scrutiny and notice - planning officer or committee regardless. It's up to you to make sure you check 'every' planning application as they are published. What a Face

Guest Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:04 pm

Chill37 wrote:
Atlas wrote:ALL. I REPEAT - 'ALL' PLANNING APPLICATIONS HAVE TO BE ANNOUNCED IN THE LOCAL PAPER. IT'S THE LAW.
In order that people may view them and object or comment if they wish.
The application cannot be a 'secret'.
Yes they do have to be in the paper. It's what happens after that I am referring too.

Such as how the plans are discussed and passed.

As I said there has been some very questionable judgements as per my post.

At last ! ? It isn't a legal requirement to announce all planning applications in the local paper.

Weekly lists are put on the local RMB web site and the public can go and 'look' at copies in the council's planning department, which both seem unlikely, time-consuming regular pursuits, unless one harboured specific suspicions of stealthy goings on at the time Suspect

.

The 'delegated' planning decisions are often covered by dated, perfunctory options of written ' neighbour ' consultation, or a site notice. I live four doors away from a planning application subject, but was not scoped as being a neighbour, yet some other properties, potentially further away from impacts of the same application, were leafleted. The power of a Planning Officer can be startling, mind-boggling even. From start to finish, a total of three weeks was allocated for processes of challenge, awareness or changes .. before a target approved-by date

I agree Chill37, there have been some very questionable decisions. These also include a 'Delegated Power' collection of decisions in Rochdale township, from past years' and current

Atlas Mon Aug 19, 2013 1:12 am

The advent of technology makes changes - however you 'cannot - NOT - publish a planning application'. That would be illegal. You may try to make it's presence obscure and difficult to 'easily' find but you cannot 'hide' it from public viewing. To do so would make the planning decision on it null and void in an instant.
So - you NEED to MAKE SURE you check every week that it is not being 'obscured' from public scrutiny and thus you need to check the website etc etc every week. Believe me - you DO HAVE the right to be heard - after which the rest is up to those who agree with your sentiments to scream them from the rooftops by whichever method proves most valuable to the cause. Fair fortune. Very Happy

Hinch Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:38 am

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/82047/greenwoods-and-thorntons-closing-down

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