Cyril Smith

That's exactly why many people have tried for decades to get the whole matter properly investigated. It is now surely a matter of how much he did, because GMP have confirmed that certain acts by Smith DID happen, but for what ever reason the cases were not prosecuted. There has to be a full investigation into what he did, and why action was not taken against him, including finding out who if anyone covered up his actions.

All this has to happen to gain some justice for the victims. Also though I believe its important that those like the RAP and Private Eye demanded proper investigations are vindicated. This has nothing to do with politics but is all about justice. The only politics involved was the politics involved in preventing Smith from being prosecuted 40 years ago.

johnb wrote:Some very Stalinist elements here...

From the evidence, properly presented by the victims it will be possible to form a reasonable view.

The big regret is that this was not handled properly at the time, particularly since there are now very few witnesses from the management side to give evidence one way or the other.

Knowl View presents a better opportunity, since other staff and management are still around. I would also suggest that some examination is carried out on 'Rochdale Childer' and 'Rochdale Youth Orchestra'.

It's all very well Labour wringing their collective hands over this now, but they were as complicit as anyone else at the time in keeping all this under wraps. Cyril Smith was originally one of theirs!

Please explain the "stalinist"elements you feel are present.

Spartacus wrote:

johnb wrote:Some very Stalinist elements here...

It's all very well Labour wringing their collective hands over this now, but they were as complicit as anyone else at the time in keeping all this under wraps. Cyril Smith was originally one of theirs!

Anyone who tries to use these events to score political points is, in my opinion, beyond the pale.

This is about abuse and the child victims of abuse.

Cyril abused young boys and without his political connections he would have been charged. I do not care if his colours were red, yellow, blue or green. It has no relevance with regard to his actions.

The truth is what is sought. It has nothing to do with politics. There are contributors to this forum who hold political beliefs, some are desperate to minimise the seriousness of the abuse which the police say Cyril Smith heaped upon vulnerable boys. Others say the suspicions held for decades about Smiths sexual habits have been proved to be true. If they hold politicals views their words are just as relevant. Politicians of all persuasions exploit whatever weaknesses they find in their opponents.
I have already been accused of holding Stalinist views. Any one who knows me or anything about my political past, and present will know nothing could be further from the truth.

The accusations against Cyril Smith have become even more definite and serious, with the BBC now reporting -
Cyril Smith 'raped some of his victims', MP says
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-20568253

In his appearance on that T.V. program, Mr. Danczuk was definite about Cyril Smith that, quote: "he raped children".

Mr. Danczuk's trademark phrase seems to be "there can be no doubt."

The Daily Mail takes it even further into Jimmy Saville land with quote:
Child abuser Cyril Smith groomed and abused a young activist inside the Houses of Parliament, it has been claimed.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2241310/Cyril-Smith-Victim-speaks-grooming-abuse-inside-Houses-Parliament.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

It's difficult to see how the reputation of Cyril Smith can recover after this. The name 'Rochdale' is becoming fixed in the public mind as a focus of problems in the north of England.

Cyfrifia wrote:

It's difficult to see how the reputation of Cyril Smith can recover after this. The name 'Rochdale' is becoming fixed in the public mind as a focus of problems in the north of England.


I agree Cyfrifia, it will take me a long time (if ever) during what's left of my lifespan to admit that I live in Rochdale and I was born and bred here, sorry....but, that's the way it is, I am ashamed of where I live.

It is a pity. The people of Rochdale do seem to have been badly let down over the years, one way and the other. I'm sorry about the state of things, I was brought up not far away.

The way forward I can imagine is for the town to somehow get some outstandingly brilliant and unselfish leadership.

I'm not ashamed of Rochdale but I am incredibly annoyed by the clowns that run the place and by the people who have brought us into current disrepute.

The people of Rochdale are not reponsible for the few idiots and perverts amongst them. Every town, city and village has some. You should see some of the 'pearlers' here - missing links? Mind yer own business.
The reputation of the town is more likely to be 'rubbished' with the 'benefit and chav' culture that adorns some areas than with the criminal activities of a few. Get over yerselves - tomorrow is another day.

Atlas wrote:The people of Rochdale are not reponsible for the few idiots and perverts amongst them. Every town, city and village has some. You should see some of the 'pearlers' here - missing links? Mind yer own business.
The reputation of the town is more likely to be 'rubbished' with the 'benefit and chav' culture that adorns some areas than with the criminal activities of a few. Get over yerselves - tomorrow is another day.

I would suggest the benefit and Chav culture you speak of also goes through every town /city up and down the country.

Rochdale is no more responsible for individual acts of criminality than Leeds in the Savile case. People do bad things, simple as that, the reason we are debating it is because these were very well known people abusing their status in the communities they lived.

The culture of turning a blind eye and sweeping crimes like this under the carpet must stop, that is indeed the only thing needs changing here in ANY community ANYWHERE in Britain.

We also need to watch the watchers by accepting that anyone wanting to work with children could be a potential child abuser and because they do so much good they are NOT above reproach and criminality in the yes of the community.

It needs to be sorted and it needs to be done now.

Yes, Irishman. There has to be trust in society for it to work properly.

An aspect of Cyril Smiths political career that also needs re-appraisal is his support for the asbestos industry. We might wonder how influential he was, how much care he really had for the welfare of others, and how many people may have suffered because of it.

I see this has happened today:

http://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/2/news-headlines/75800/rochdales-safeguarding-children-board-chair-resigns

Wonder who will be next.

What do rodents do when the ship is sinking Chill?

Atlas wrote:

teamplayer2 wrote:If a lot of people did know. I hope they are revealed and dealt with like the Social Workers are going to be in Rochdale if all aligations are correct as alleged.

Can I assume you are referring to those 'people' whose job it was to 'look after' the children and not just 'those that knew' (like me for example) but who had no real proof of the veracity of the 'allegations' or who would have been listened to (being a mere plebe). Hmmm? This was the 1960's remember. Corporal punishment was practiced throughout our society with abandonment and impunity. Spare the rod - ruin the child. Make sure you try the coat on first before qualifying its quality.

Oh come off it Atlas. It was abuse pure and simple if all aligations are true. It was regret once where I had to report abuse working in care, but how I was treated after from other staff where I reported it was a lot to be desired. You are treated like a grass like a grass would be treated in the criminal world. As for whislteblowing policies they are as much use as a Chocolate teapot. At least I did the right thing and the people concerned dealt with.

For your information the people who did know let it carry on and covered it up for some reason and for those who turned a blind eye are just as guilty for standing by and letting the poor victims suffer for even longer. I hope they are named and shame when a lot more is uncovered if all aligations are correct, but looking at the evidence those who stood by and covered it up or stood by should hold their heads in shame.

At least I had the guts to report abuse. It was not sexual abuse but abuse all the same which comes in many forms but reportable.

You are indeed a saint teamplayer2. I could have done with you around some of my situations at the time, perhaps then I wouldn't be so scathing at some of your modern day thinking.

I've said it before and I will repeat it again. What you might consider disgraceful and outrageous today was not viewed in the same vein historically - fitting today's cap on 50 years ago doesn't cut it. Of course it was abusive - of course it was unacceptable - but far less so than it is considered today. Which doesn't make it right then or now -. But that is the way it was.